Montbell Ultralight Inner Down Jacket vs. Mountain Hardwear Phantom

I don't have one, but from what I have been told, think of it as being a replacement for a 200wt fleece. Most will say it's good to 40-45* just sitting around, which is about right for a 200wt fleece.

If you have the Phantom, I would keep using it. You could also look into the Montbell Alpine and Alpine Light, if you want more warmth or if you want to shave the warmth/weight down a bit.

I don't own the inner parka, I have the ex-light and I think they are just about as similar as can be, one is just missing pockets and a drawcord. I also have the phantom. I will say now that the montbell is not for seriously keeping you warm. When coupled with the r1 it makes a nice combination that works for me in temps just above freezing but not something I have tried in below freezing temps. The phantom has about 3x's the loft of the montbell and is a much warmer jacket. I do find the phantom to be a little short however. If you don't yet own the phantom and are considering buying one then for around that price you can get something from ff/wm/nunatak (maybe) that would be a nicer product IMHO. In the cold warmth is a top priority so I would skimp elsewhere if you are really trying to save weight also a balaclava will make a big difference in either piece.

OK, so the Montbell jacket is for campwear around 40-45 degrees? At that temp, I've been find in just a lightweight base layer + R1 pullover + rain jacket as long as I'm moving around. I suppose I'll have to look else where for something warm enough down into the 20s.

What about the WM Flight Jacket? Could it rival the Mountain Hardwear Phantom? Don't get me wrong–the Phantom's a nice jacket, a tad short admittedly.

I'm also looking for recommendations on head and handwear. Last year I used a Mountain Hardwear Dome Perignon and REI windproof fleece gloves.

David,

The REI MTS base layer, @ 7.5, oz is a redundant system element. Eliminate it to save weight. The R1 provides the base layer function with the addition of a hood and thumbholes.

There is nothing on the market significantly lighter than the Phantom for the warmth it provides. Compliment its efficiency by replacing the 7.5 oz REI MTS base layer with a pair of Montbell Ultralight Down Inner Pants or something similar.

"Barely on the side of warm" – guess that means more heat would be welcome..

Hmmm, you already have the R1. If that is nice and snug, use as a base layer and conserve the 7.5 ounces of MTS. Straight trade it for the UL Inner Parka AND bring the Phantom.

Your Phantom is pretty good, warmer than the MB UL Inner or AlpineLight.
To get warmer(?) from Mont-Bell, you're not saving so much weight as their next up from that is baffled, so maybe warmer, but still around a pound like what you got.

If you want to get the liner jacket, consider the extra 3/4 oz and get the hooded parka version, it can give great warmth to the head for 3/4 oz, and 5 degrees of on-the-go temperature adjustment. It's the same weight as that base layer, congrats! Swap and layer with the Phantom for a flexible system.

Liners are nice to sleep in because they don't take up all the room in your bag.

another warming idea: boxer-briefs rather than either boxers or briefs. They cover your femoral artery, for just a scrap more cloth.

Ive been using the montbell UL inner jacket in combination
with a merino base shirt and the bpl Cocoon UL 60 Pullover. This has kept me warm into the mid 20's.

Does the Phantom jacket beat the WM Flight jacket for warmth, too? The Flight jacket appears to be 5.5 oz lighter than my Phantom but still have a good bit of loft.

One thing I don't like about the Phantom is that it's kind of short and it rides up sometimes, letting in cold air. Any way around this? How do you insulate your hips and buttocks?

As for the REI baselayer, I wear it constantly so it's not weight in my pack. I like having the REI MTS and the R1 pullover to have a versatile system whilst hiking–if it gets sunny, I pull off the R1 and/or my rain shell. If it gets cold, I don the R1 and/or rain shell. The R1 alone won't keep me warm enough when I'm hiking in freezing weather. Also, I don't think down jackets are good for hiking, no? The Phantom is there for rest stops and camp. Correct me if I'm wrong, but fleece (maybe synthetic fill jackets, too?) is best for active stuff, while down is best for sitting around.

I'd also like to hear feedback on head and handwear. I'm happy with my Dome Perignon, but should I add a balaclava? What about gloves? Do you recommend liners (e.g., Mountain Hardwear powerstretch) + fleece gloves like I've been using…or something else? Does anyone have experience with the Possum Down? Should I try mittens? Last year, I remember my hands being damp and cold.

Again, let's say temperatures are around 20-30 degrees.

You might want to try/look at the new Rab Microlight Alpine Jacket:

http://www.rab.uk.com/clothing/down_insulation/microlight_alpine_jacket—13/

With a weakening £ this might be a pretty good buy?

The Mont Bell Alpine jacket might be warmer as it has 6 ounces of down and is fully baffled, but if you already have the Phantom, I wouldn't go out and buy another jacket.

As far as handwear, I generally use Mountain Hardwear Powerstrech gloves while hiking and use 100 wt fleece liners + OR PL400 (400 wt fleece) mitts (mitts are warmer than gloves) and add MLD eVent rain mitts as needed. I also make sure I have plenty of gloves, so I always have a dry pair. I don't go in really bad weather, and rarely see it below zero, but my hands tend to stay cold and I have found that that is the only way to keep them semi warm.

For headwear, I use a Mountain Hardwear Micro Dome (100 wt fleece) while hiking and a Dome Perigorn in camp. I also carry a OR Sonic Balaclava for sleeping and camp use if cold enough. It is amazing how much warmer you feel if you keep your head warm.

Any other suggestions on gloves?

I just discovered Will's article on gloves http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/lightweight_handwear_for_cold_and_wet_conditions_orwm08.html

and will have to re-read it more closely, but it appears that the best system is a liner glove (of varying thickness?), a thicker fleece mitten, and a shell mitten if rain is in the picture. Am I on target?

What liners and fleece mittens do you guys prefer, and where can I buy the MLD shells?

I currently own a pair of Mountain Hardwear Powerstretch Gloves and a pair of these REI fleece gloves http://www.rei.com/product/773909

I've been using the Powerstretch gloves as a liner inside the REI fleece gloves but I think it is too tight of a fit. Mittens are probably better.