Are single walled tents REALLY that light?

Let's see:

Lunar Solo – 24.0 oz
6 stakes – 1.5 oz
1 Titanium Goat trekking pole — 3 oz
Groundsheet – 3 oz

Total – 31.5 oz or just under 2 lbs.

For those who hike with 1 or 2 trekking poles anyway, one can argue that total tent weight really should be just 28.5 oz. or 1.8lbs or almost half the weight of a 3.5lbs double wall tent!

Saving close to 2 pounds can be a very good thing — esp. when camping in temperate areas with low to moderate humidity.

Hmmm. I guess I have to learn more about carbone fiber poles.

Ben or anybody else, what's your opinion of SMD Lunar Solo vs. Tarptent Contrail?

Dennis
A lot of people that buy pole supported shelters already do use poles, so the weight of the poles is not factored in. When I used my TT Rainbow ( 34oz, with pole and pegs, fully enclosed, no need for an extra floor or whatever…) I still had with me the same poles that I use with the Contrail now, so for me the Contrail is 25 oz . If you particularly don't intend using trekking poles, TT can supply one for 2oz, not that it will offer the same support as Ben's poles and not even close to the tension that I can put on it using my poles, but they all work.

"Is the 0.5 lbs worth ",
well almost 2 lbs…

" the condensation management"
I bet that If I weigh my Contrail in the morning after a quick wipe , its weight is still not much more than 25 oz. Try that with most double skin tents.
Hint : you may not see the condensation , but it's there, and some time it will drip on you even inside a double skin tent.

" colder internal temperatures,"
well , I think that my puffy jacket that I have with me anyway, is warmer than having an inner ( I am thinking 3 seasons here…)

learning curve to master the perfect pitch
with some shelters , maybe. Helps if you practice in a controlled environment rather than trying to figure it out when you are cold,wet,tired and hungry…
BTW, I do see many badly set up double skin tents, I hear them flapping during the night…

" which will probably vary with each setting"
That is what I like with the Contrail, I can increase or decrease the ventilation/exposure to the elements according to the circumstances. But of course you can also do that with some double skin tents, if you know how.

" and dependency on ideal climate conditions (whereas, double walled tents seem universal to all weather conditions."
Really ? Ask anyone that has used an Akto in damp conditions, or a Hubba Hubba in strong wind , and by the way I picked on two well known, well designed and liked by most, shelters…
And of course users of the Hex and the like will be very interested to see most double skin tents set up in the snow, winter campers can always do with a good laugh.

But, yes I understand what you are getting at. I can guarantee that if you convince yourself that no single skin tent will work for you, you will prove yourself right just like some tarp campers pretend that is fun to camp under them in wind driven rain.. ( oh dear…)
Franco

Coming up :
Franco wants to know :
What is the point of having a tarp/ground floor/bivvy (or net)combo when you can get a fully enclosed shelter for 25 oz or less, set it up, prepare,cook and eat dinner whilst your mate is still fiddling with his tarp ?
( I just had a hot cup of chocolate and my mate is still looking for those sticks that miraculously appear where tarp users camp)

I used a Six Moons Design Lunar Solo on the CDT this summer. A shelter with a built in floor and bug netting for about 24 oz. Plus six stakes for another oz. or two. I use poles anyway so I don't count that weight. And I never use a ground cloth.

The Lunar Solo is a great shelter. I used a Tarptent Virga during on my Alaska traverse, and saw the Contrail being used on my CDT hike. Also very good shelters indeed, but I wouldn't trade my Lunar Solo for them.

Condensation is a minor concern for me and it hasn't been difficult to get a good pitch. (Requiring a bit more experience is good site selection, perhaps even more important.) You might have a point with the warmth factor of a double wall in cold conditions. There might be break-point for the trade-offs there.

"set it up, prepare,cook and eat dinner whilst your mate is still fiddling with his tarp ? "

I still dont get why people say this.
I have owned 3 tarptents and many tarps they both only took a few minutes to set up. I didnt time myself in drills in the back yard or anything, but if it only takes like 2 minutes to set up a tarp and if the tarptent guy is already cooking dinner by that time I would say that I see no real advantage to setting up that super fast anyway.

I think this is mainly an HYOH thing. I find myself using tarps or TarpTents depending on conditions and/or my own whim.

However, I must admit that I used a trusty old double wall tent on a canoe trip last summer … after 6 years of using more open shelter it made me feel quite claustrophobic! (not a small tent)

Regarding condensation … "It happens" (Forrest Gump)

I use a Gatewood Cape, Virga II and a Squall II
I also use a Lightyear, and Omega for Winter, snow camping.
For me, ya the couple pounds I save is worth it, but what do you REALLY get while saving those 2 pounds:

1) Less volume requirements in your pack
2) Wad and stuff in the morning vs. folding , trying to maintain the same size as when you left home
3) Setup times are less
4) Drying times are less
5) You can set them up in the rain (floorless) and still have a dry interior

Just to name a few.

you're mixing things here. The way you put it, it's not only about single vs. double wall but more stuff like being free-standing or not or having its own dedicated frame or not. These criteria are independent of the number of walls. There are double wall tents that use trekking poles for set up and there are obviously many double wall tents that are not free-standing. There are fully framed single-walls and even free-standing ones.

Then, if you compare a traditional, fully framed, free-standing double wall to a similarly sized single wall with no frame, the weight difference will be way more than .5 pound.

> What is the point of having a tarp/ground floor/bivvy (or
> net)combo when you can get a fully enclosed shelter for 25 oz or less

For a number of years I used a spinnshelter / A16 bivy. The big advantage is the ability to separately the components. Most of my time is spent in the sierras. Either I have to worry about bugs, or precipitation, but typically not both. Freak storms can happen, so I always carried my tarp… but it rarely goes up late spring through the end of fall. I would just use just the bug bivy. This left me feeling much more connected to the environment than any tarptent I have used while keeping the mosquitoes at bay.

That said… I did make the switch to a gossamer gear the one. The One goes up faster, provides more shelter space from rain, a much larger space that is free of fly bugs, and keeps crawling bugs out at the cost of around 3oz. I don't regret the switch… especially after one night that I was exhausted and ready to sleep. Found what looks like a nice place. The night was warm and not mosquitoes. I thought perfect night for cowboy camping. Seems there was a colony of ants that sting nearby. I pretty quickly gave up on cowboy camping and put up the one cause I really didn't want to hike any farther. A DWR bivy would have been too stuffy in the warm weather, my A16 bug bivy won't have kept the ants out. I was glad I have the one with me.

–Mark

If you're really concerned about condensation and breezes, combine a bivy with a tarptent. A DWR bivy will go a long way towards keeping you warm on breezy nights, and creates a quasi-double walled tent. Or, go for a fully wp/b one (you can set some for as little as 6.5oz these days).

You could get a Tarptent Sublite, a bivy, and a 3-4oz tarp awning and have a lighter and more versatile setup than a double-walled tent (and probably less cost). Most of the time you'd only have to set up the Sublite, which is quite easy and almost free-standing. You'd have the tools to be comfortable in a real variety of weather. Plus, as you get more comfortable with a tarptent, you can leave the bivy at home. With a double-wall shelter you have to go purchase a new tent if you decide to go lighter later.

Sure, this is overkill for many, but for those considering a double-wall tent for 3-season conditions, I always find it odd that the choice is only ever a cold, condensation prone tarptent vs. a massive (relatively) double-walled tent.

nm

Thanks for all the input.

I have never had to sponge my Integral MK tent. It will ice up one in a while but with my Event or Goretex covered feathered friends bags, there's no problem . With carbon poles it has to be lighter than these bivibag/tarptent combos. Pitching is easy – I can even pick it up and move it quite easily.

The point about the tarp/bivy combo was, I thought, an obvious hyperbole ( no, I don't really manage to cook and have dinner before Mr Tarp finishes to set himself up…) about highlighting that it is indeed HYOH. Each one of us should consider the pros and cons of every system and go for the one that makes sense to us . And for the record, I did deliberately tried to make the single wall shelter sound better than it is, because I was taking the opposite view to the OP.
Now, hammock camping I don't get at all … (this one is for the WB crowd)

I have never used a ground sheet with my heavily used Cloudburst or any of my sil nylon based bivies. The silnylon floor sits directly on top of the ground with no problems. So there goes another 3oz.

Totally agree…I never use a groundsheet, although I always have a bivy bag. Also, some of the "single wall" tents, such as the Double Rainbow, have an extra inner liner that can be added for colder weather, making it a virtually double skinned tent when staked down tight to the ground. Only problem is that some of the "skin" is mesh, so not completely windproof.

I beg to differ with the bivy people. If you are camping in mild conditions you can leave the single use of bivy at home for a 3' by 7' sheet of 3mm painters plastic to throw you sleeping pad and sleeping bag right on top of(for sleeping under the stars or a tarp)OR cut a piece of painters plastic to the size of your tent, weighs in at only a few ounces and weighs almost nothing from your wallet.
Sure, not the most tare proof, but if you are careful in selecting your site, it will last you for the entire length of the trip.