Help with Winter Hiking Jacket/Coat

There are a lot of options out there, making the decision a difficult one, but I suppose the first choice most make is whether to buy down or synthetic. I rarely go out for more than 4 days in the winter, so using down is not an issue for me.
However, I use synthetics for my belay jacket when ice climbing (DAS parka)- not so much due to a fear of saturating down, but rather due to the vast amount of duct tape patches on down jackets used for this purpose. If you will be using pointy things such as crampons, ice screws and tools, consider a synthetic just for the lessened issue of poking a hole in it.
Also, synthetics are not as lofty, meaning they might layer better with a bag (depends on your build, and the bags width).
With that said- all numbers be damned, but I have yet to use a synthetic coat or bag that compares in warmth to the same weight down item.

If going with down, look at the down load to decipher relative warmth. For a real winter coat (standing around in the teens) I like around 8-10 ounces of high quality down. A bit less if it has a good hood. So, for me the MB Alpine Light is not warm enough, with the MB Alpine being right on the border (and on sale at Prolite)
If you intend to be out of your bag alot, consider a hood as it makes a huge difference in warmth when inactive.

I lump down jackets into the following categories:

ultralight- less than 6 ounces of down, very light shell for above freezing)

sweaters- between 6-9 ounces, usually sewn through with no hood and a short cut. Good to maybe 35 degrees.

Parkas- 9-11 ounces of down, maybe baffled with a hood and longer cut. Ideal to the 20s.

Expedition- the monster puffballs.

If you intend to be active, then hop in your bag, a sweater would be fine. Otherwise, I'd get a parka. The FF Volant is an ideal example of the later (to me). However, for a sweater I'd get the MB Alpine at Prolite for under $140.

I picked up a Feathered Friends Volant for $150 on ebay a few weeks ago. I do most of my winter backpacking in the Midwest and lower East and I think this is about as warm of a jacket as I'll ever need.

Thanks for your comments guys. Anybody else?

As a side note – want to buy down since packability and weight are two of the most important issues for me.

Thanks

Montbell Alpine Down Jacket and then use a MH balaclava/micro dome or dome perignon and you should be pretty warm at rest. Or pick up a down balaclava to go with it.

Thanks Bret – leaning that way.

Anyone else have a thought on a particular jacket?

Depends on your budget. If your budget is tight then MontBell is a good option. If you have money to indulge yourself then I would go with one of the Nunatak fully baffled jackets with either a hood or a separate down balaclava. You won't find warmer for the weight. The Skaha hoody can be made with overfill to boost it's warmth (and the handwarmer pockets are really nice too).

I use a MontBell Thermawrap jacket in the same areas. It's synthetic but weight and packability are both still excellent.

Allison: Forgot about Nunatak – just too steep for me by about $100

Chris: Thanks. I've looked at those but they seem a bit light for 0-30 degrees. Am I wrong?

I've been fine to the low teens in mine with nothing underneath but a microweight merino wool shirt. I think I have better temp regulation than most people though so keep that in mind.

I vote for the Montbell Alpine Down – still on sale at Prolite. Pretty quality jacket for the money. That amount of down/loft keeps me warm, but I tend NOT to sit around camp for hours on end, so you have to evaluate your use.

Also, you didn't mention whether your sleeping bag was down or synthetic, but I would think you would get some pretty healthy condensation in your bivy and within your bag insulation when the temps are 0-30 degrees. Are you using a vapor barrier liner for the colder conditions? Regardless, your innermost layer (the jacket) should stay the driest, so may not be too great of risk of down collapse on short trips.

Chris: Good to know – thanks. My deal is if I maintain warmth I'm fine. If I go very cold – it is hard for me to reverse the trend.

Jason: My bag is a WM Highlite (35 degrees). I am using a vapor barrier (assuming we meant the same thing). Thanks for the suggestion – the MB jackets seem to be getting the nod for ability, price, and weight….

For late fall/early spring trips I use a Patagonia Down Sweater which weighs in at 12oz and costs $200.00 if not on sale. This is a simple and warm jacket.

For more severe winter conditions I take a WM Vapor jacket, this weighs in at 16oz and costs $300.00. It has a tougher GWS shell and is very warm.

Neither of these jackets are hooded.

Erik don't mean to take over your thread but I was also wondering about winter jackets for deep cold. I live in northern Minnesota and have in to the -20 many times using my Mountain hardwear sub zero hooded jacket. I am now trying to find something that would be comparable but lighter ie under 30oz or 850 grams. I want the down filled hood and pockets.

What would 650 down in the sub zero be equivalent to in 850 down? How do you evaluate the two in weight terms.

Any good advice?

Thank you
Aziz

Abdulaziz,

Michael and others posted good answers to Erik's question. I will just address your question. I lived in your area for 14 years. It was not uncommon to have a week of -30F wind chill temps for a week straight in January. That is no place to make a mistake regarding adequate insulation.

I own a Mountain Hardware Sub Zero with sewn through construction. It weighs 27 oz in size medium. This is primarily because the external fabric is 55 denier, the liner is 30 denier, and the insulation is 650 fill down. Mountain Hardware doesn’t publish the down fill weight or the clo value of the jacket. Also there is no other independent source that has published the clo value for this jacket. I tested it in my lab and it yielded an intrinsic clo value of 4.477. To put that number in perspective it is more than 20% warmer than the Mont-bell Alpine jacket which is Mont-bell’s warmest light weight down jacket. The MB Alpine was also tested by me. The MB Alpine uses 800 fill and box baffles. The MH Sub Zero is an excellent jacket if you require that level of warmth in combination with extreme durability. Equivalent warmth in a jacket using 800+ fill down and lighter fabrics will require ~ 9 oz of 800+ fill. There are a few equal warmth jackets, with down filled hoods and pockets but, at lighter weights than 27 oz for the Sub Zero. They include the following:

Feathered Friends Hooded Helios @ 18 oz
Nunatak Kobuk, with optional hood @ 19.3+ oz
Feathered Friends Volant, with optional hood @ 22+ oz

Erik, I live in VA and am interested in your exp. with the WM Highlite and VB. What type of VB do you use. I was thinking of buying VB material from Stephensons and making own.

What temp's and humidity have you used this setup on and what were results/comfort?

We get a lot of condensation even in double wall tent here and I was thinking of VB to keep down from getting wet or even damp.

Chuck

Aziz:

No worries. If it helps I've been reading these two threads and have bookmarked them. They may help you:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/13697/index.html

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/9378/index.html

Charles:

My response will take some explaining.

I have yet to take my WM Highlite on a winter trip. I figured I needed another insulating layer to boost the temp rating so I asked about jackets. I figured I could wear a jacket at rest in camp (while cooking – I make camp just before sundown usually)and in the bag.

I barrowed a VB from a buddy (he thought it was an Integral Designs – it looked like a military piece to me – could be both?) on some previous trips. I haven't had outside in problems – and used this bag "liner" VB to avoid inside/out condensation (ie. wetting my bag from the inside by my body heat). My buddy said it would be too much here and he was right as I used it with a 0 degree North Face bag and it was a bit too warm. So, I haven't actually used it with the WM bag yet. In other words – I am using a VB – but haven't tried it with this bag. It wouldn't be "too much" with this bag I would think..

Btw, here is a good article on VB….

http://sectionhiker.com/2008/02/18/vapor_barrier_clothing/

I just received my montbell UL action thermawrap and am liking it. Temps have been in the 20's and 30's and I've been quite happy. I've layered a fleece jacket under it a few times, a fleece hoodie, have used it alone, and also have combined it with a patagonia down sweater vest. (I get cold very easily) It's a really versatile jacket. I'm pretty confident that with the right layers I can wear this jacket through the whole winter.

I don't know if you could find one on the Gear Swap here (or on ebay), but the New Balance FUGU I've got is the best down coat I've ever used/seen. Medium is ~13 oz, and I'd consider it comfortable down below 0*; it's warmer than anything else I've ever seen. 850-fill down and a radiant heat reflector layer that helps as well. Comes up snug around the neck and is long around the waist.

Again, I hope I'm not sending you on a wild goose chase for something that's impossible to find.

Tim,this thread is 3 years old!