Titanium Walking Crampon

Very cool project.

One point on each side is a good idea. This would also free up room for the strapping system which is currently located just above each tooth. The thickness and size of the material is designed in a way that 4 teeth "should" be in contact in order to take the weight of a 200lb person. My 0.04" thick crampons failed because I didn't take into account dynamic loading. With only 1 point on each side, I would have to revisit that – but it is definitely doable.
I'm just now looking into removing the buckles and simply adding triglides for adjustment. I figure the buckles may be overkill and you can just loosen all the straps and slip them on, adjust as req'd. I have seen the camp punte ones. They have them across the street from me. My only reason for adjustment on all 3 straps was that you could position them in different areas of the foot depending on the terrain. ie. Forward on the foot during uphill, rear of the foot during descent and middle for flat terrain. Maybe I should go take another look at the camp ones…

I hear you with the aluminum. I have the aluminum kahtoolas and avoid rock whenever possible – but they do work great.

Roger, I agree with you. The side tabs would make these bomber. And I want to put side tabs, I really do…but there are a few problems with that. One is that I will then have to make the width adjustable. This means 2 pieces, and some sort of screw mechanism and I want to avoid the complexity of that. The only pair I have seen with side tabs that are not adjustable are the ones pictured in one of your earlier posts, but I'd have to try those before I got a set made like that. Second issue is the tooling on the press. Once you start bending up and down along the same line, things get a little more expensive. Also, with this thickness, the tightest radius I have tried is 0.375" and I don't want to go any tighter – this would effect the side tabs contacting the edge of the footwear as you would be standing on a radius.
The earlier Rev 2 set actually did very well with regards to slipping around. Only problem was the teeth ended up bending a bit after walking on concrete. I will test these to see how they do. My only reason for having some hope is that if they do skew, the entire strap must rotate around the foot as the strap cannot slide through the crampon. Friction holds it dead tight. Of course, if it proves to be an issue, then a redesign is in order.
I also have to make sure I don't overdesign these things. They are meant for icy trails and low inclines. Anything more then that and we'll have to use these ones…

Hi Steve

The following photos may offer some assistance into what might be done.

The pair, right way up and upside down
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One crampon folded up for packing
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What is not obvious from the photos is that these are an old Grivel design from the 60s! They are full 12-point crampons suitable for ice climbing. I have used them quite happily in Australia, Scotland and Nepal. (The Scottish ice climbers are mad!)

They are made of forged steel and fairly heavy webbing. They weight 486 g for the pair. They are adjusted to fit my boots by heating each of the ring-supporting uprights and/or the front arms to red heat and then bending them to fit. Yep, done that several times.

Note: these are 12-pointers, not instep crampons meant just for walking. So they are far more than one might need for walking. If you substitute 6Al4V titanium for the forged steel, remove half the points and lighten the webbing, I am sure you could get a suitable weight. But I am reasonably sure the metal tabs going up beside the sole will be needed if you are going to traverse sloping glaciers.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Wow, 486g really isn't that bad. They're lighter then my kahtoolas! That's a pretty minimal design and I like it. After this version I want to work on a full crampon, but that'll have to wait until these are done. Too many projects at this point!

Wow, you've been busy and your crampon is looking excellent!.
I'm doing a tahr hunt in the southern alps of New Zealand in may, and have been looking into making crampons. I've cheated a bit though and have copied a tried and tested design. (Petzl Vasak), I'm pretty sure this would probably be a copyright problem, so don't go selling these and making money from them eh!
I can send you the DXF of the flat pattern if you'd like.

I've made mine from 2mm 304 Stainless, I'd like to make them from Ti, but sadly i don't have access to it for cheap! So Stainless will have to do. The real ones are 2.5mm hardened steel, but i'll only be using mine once a year, and mostly on snow & ice (minimal rocky stuff).

I've bought the link bar, as they're made from spring steel, and i can't seem to find a local seller of that either (I'm thinking of using an old wood saw, maybe layered).

Here's the bit's thus far (nb: not bent up yet)

Notice the Flex bar has a slight bend to it, this helps it follow the profile of your foot.

This is MK1, I'm thinking MK2 will be 2mm Ti, big rads, maybe hinged center instead of flex.

Any suggestions would be gladly welcomed.

Cheers

Wow. Definitely!

One thought for you. While commercial crampons need to be seriously adjustable, ones you make for yourself don't. So I can't see why you should not replace the orange link with some 2.4 mm Ti (SS) wire with loops at the ends (see Grivel). The stuff is sold as welding wire, and is bendable with a little heat. It seems to harden after the first heating.

Doing this would allow you to trim the various slots out as well.

I assume you intend to fold the upright tabs down over some rings, like the Grivel ones? Seems fine to me.

If you were to shorten the points a little you might lose a little grip under some conditions, but you could compensate by widening the points slightly at the base. Then you should be able to make these out of 1.6 mm 6Al4V titanium alloy. You would need heat to make the bends though.

The heel section – worries me slightly. The tabs seem much too far back. I think they should be mid-way along instead. Or better still – you should move some of the front section onto the back section. Your shoes flex at the ball of the foot, not at the arch.

Cheers

Thanks for the input :-) Some good points.
The tabs are indeed going to bent up over 'D' rings.

I see what you mean about the foot bending at the ball, but these are 'semi-rigid' style crampons, and my boots are pretty stiff, so i'm hopeful they'll be ok.

The Grivel 'Hinged' big heel version does look a bit easier to make and as you say i don'y really need all the adjustment (As they're custom fit).

I've bent it up now:

Sadly we don't have segmented bottom bars for our press brake at work, so it was a vice/hammer folding process (read: pretty rough).

I've lashed it to my foot and gone for a stroll, and as you suggest, it flexes pretty badly in the last section of the front plate (as it's too long). I think it has a bit to do with the softness of St/St but a Ti version may work quite well.

I'm heading off hunting in about three weeks, so i doubt i'll get these finished before we go, so they may have to be shelved until next year :-(

Jeremy, those are looking mighty sweet! Great job! Make sure to post some pics when they are finished…and don't forget about the weight. :)

I've been testing mine but the strapping system is cumbersome, especially in the cold, so I'm thinking of changing things around.

Hi guys !
I'm glad to see that I am not alone looking for "home made titanium crampon". You've all done great job! Well, I would like to make a trial with T40 and TA6V titanium grade. T40 is a bad quality compared with TA6V but it can be easily bended at room temperature (perfect to work at home). TA6V is stronger but bending radius is limited to thickness*10 when bended at room temp. Ideally, TA6V would need a heating press…what is limited to industrial means.
Could you please provide me the DXF of the flat pattern to make a test? Thanks.
Thomas
punchman3 at hotmail dot com

Hi Thomas,
Just checking you got the DXF'x OK. I've found another couple we 'tweaked' for the plasma cutter as well. Mine are still not finished due to a new addition to the family, so i doubt i'll be off Tahr hunting this winter :-(

Steve – one thing to look out for is build up of snow and ice on the exposed webbing on the underside of the crampon/shoe, what I would call 'balling'. A small amount of snow sticks to the webbing, melts a little, penetrates the fabric and refreezes, and then more and more snow sticks. You end up walking on with balls of hard snow under each foot. It depends on the temperature and kind of snow, but it's not unusual here. You may need straps that water cannot penetrate – commercial strap-on crampons use reinforced neoprene rubber straps for this reason.

Roger – my first crampons were like those! when I was a lad, which was, ahem, quite a while ago…

Hi Stuart, I've been working on these for a while now – too long to be honest :). I have actually made a few more prototypes and some worked while others didn't. I "think" I have worked out most of the quirks and am getting another pair made in the next month or so. The straps no longer go under the foot and it is very different then what I have previously made…hopefully these ones work!

The Ti crampon looks indeed very very close to the ULA product, not called the "Amigo" (that's their gravity filter), it was called the "Axis", a search string you can perhaps use if you're looking for more feedback on quite the same form factor. Mine weigh 8.2 oz for the pair with the originally very long straps cut still generously long for use on my trail runners.

I liked the form factor of this light 8 (short) point crampon — it edged better than I expected, overall I found it a winner in terms of functionality relative to the weight. The thing that killed it for me was when I broke a tooth (on the crampon, not in my head) walking on a very short (a matter of feet) snowless section. And then shortly after broke another tooth on the other one on another very short snowless section. At least using the material that ULA used, the tooth bends were too brittle/weak. I've mostly stopped carrying them as it seemed like just too much of a PITA to consider taking them off whenever I hit a brief snowless patch.

Best of luck with the toughness/hardness/overall strength of the material you're using, and at least if you ever do consider selling these I hope that you'll do some testing that includes having a heavy guy (I'm not all *that* heavy) walking on rocks with a heavy pack on …

I wish i had seen this thread earlier…I bought a pair of crampons for a 10 day trip i just finished in Canmore. The ones I carried are just 4 point as well and they weigh something close to 1 1/2 pounds for the set and they are pretty aggressive for what I wanted. The worst part is i never had to use them and they just made my pack heavier…cripes

mike

Many moons have passed since the thread started, but Revision 2 has finally arrived. No testing as of yet, but they are a lot more promising than the last ones. Total weight with straps is 5.5 oz on the nose.

Here is the link to my website with all the info.

http://www.suluk46.com/RandD

And here’s a little peek to see what they look like.

Steve, It looks like I'm the first here to offer congratulations. They look great.

I love the integrated triglide buckles. Whose great idea was that??

It's probably not a good time to mention it, but if you're going adjustable width would you consider maybe 2-4 predetermined widths and going tool-less? Use a keyed-in slot and a bent tab?

When are you starting production?

"Whose great idea was that??"

I can't remember ;)

Just kidding, I couldn't stop thinking of it after you mentioned it a while back. The think that I like most about the integrated tri-glides is that you really can't have a strap/buckle failure in the field.

I'm not sure I can even make these for a decent price…they cost me a small fortune to make the prototype.

I'm on my way out, but I'll get back to you tomorrow.
Steve

Steve,

Yeah, I figured they'd be well outside my wife/price tolerance level!! They are a beautiful piece of work though, and I'm impressed at how refined they are. Consider posting up a price, however unobtainable it might sound. There are always people in any sport prepared to pay to be on the cutting edge.

I guess the buckle failure thing was a big reason for my suggestion. The plastic buckles on V1 were really the only mismatched piece.

I looked into doing tooless adjustment. It would save me a few parts and probably weight. I had so many problems bending these things (I scrapped a bunch of material) and in the end, I used what is a tried and true, fully adjustable design. Also, the bending was getting bit expensive and a slot, well, it's almost free! That's not to say I won't go the keyed slot…I already used one of your ideas :)

Once I know this design is totally solid I'll put together a price. I know it will be high, but I'll see what I can do…I already have a new design in my head that will hopefully be a bit cheaper to manufacture, but I'm literally out of control with side projects right now…hehe :)

Oh, info is up on my website. The link is ~4 posts up.

Steve,

You're more than welcome. Ideas are free, and they're not helping anyone rattling around my skull. You're the one putting in the time, effort and money. Here's another one for you.

How springy/stiff is the ti sheet you are using?

Or to put it another way, if you make a strut narrow enough to be a bit springy, will it still have adequate strength? My understanding is that Ti sheet is a bit like spring steel, in that it has a certain 'range' of deformity before it permanently bends. Is this correct?

I'm thinking of a way to make the width adjustable without any additional bending. It's not infinitely adjustable, but maybe every 5mm?

How springy/stiff is the ti sheet you are using?

Hmmm, I think I see where you are going with this…You would be hard pressed to bend it with your hand. You could probably deflect it a bit, but nowhere near enough to hook it into something. Example, if you made one side a T and the other still a slot, and hooked the top of the T into the slot, you would never be able to set the foot deck flat…not even close.I'll have to think a bit to see what can be done, but it's also a matter of what is affordable aswell.

Curious though, why do you dislike the bolted connection so much? No like I am a huge fan of it or anything. :)

On my Camp ones, I set it once to my shoe and it stays put until I use it with a different shoe.

My wife's commercial trekking crampons have the same bolts for width adjustment. They use a Nylok nut, and seem quite reliable.

Cheers

I guess it's a style thing, but also along the lines of the plastic buckle. If you have a nut and bolt, especially in a straight slot, you run the risk of it sliding and widening. Or else getting kicked and being too narrow to fit on your shoe. True, it's not a big risk, but enough that you'd be looking to carry a spanner for it.

The T and slot was my initial thought, with a bend at the shaft of the T. I was also thinking T shaped slots for a more positive lock. It needs an extra bend for each tab though, and while effective, it's not very elegant.

Then I wondered if you could use one side of the crampon as a T, and the other side as the slot? If the frame was narrow enough, would it bend enough to work, without being to weak? Some flex wouldn't/shouldn't be a problem, since it would help to hold the whole thing on. I don't have any way to draw this, but I'l mock up some cardboard ones over Christmas and send you a pic.

I agree with the likely fiddle factor of the trislots in the cold, but what about this? Use 8-10cm of extra webbing, and two rings to replicate the two locking rings found on most commercial crampons. Just fold the webbing in half, drop the rings into the loop, and feed the webbing through one set of triglides. No sewing (I know you hate that Steve), and if anything fails, you take the rings off, and go back to the triglides. There's probably close to an ounce in it though, unless you can water jet some ti rings from your scrap.

Have a great Christmas, and I hope there's something light and shiny in your stocking.

Rod

"but enough that you'd be looking to carry a spanner for it."

I was just re-reading this comment. It didn't sink in at first, but straight slots (in my industry) are typically undesirable for the exact reason you mention. I haven't had my camp crampons move even a hair but I guess it would be smart to always carry the wrench. I'm thinking I may just cut the nut profile out of one the the tabs/teeth/body or something. Just for emergency adjustments.

At some point, I'm going to have to start paying you for these ideas. :)