Warm Top Selection

Nick, If you're looking for serious insulation check out the Nunatak Skaha sweaters (www.nunatakusa.com). Expensive but wonderful, and really lightweight. I tested a MontBell Down Inner Parka for backpackgeartest.org and I agree with you that it's fine as a substitute for fleece but not a serious insulating layer. (My fellow testers, however, disagreed, as their reports will show.) I'm now testing the MB EX Light – higher grade of down and really no frills; so far it's more insulation than the down inner but probably not a substitute for your Flight (again, a mid-layer, for use with a shell at least.) WM Flight is about as good a down jacket as there is for the weight, though you might consider a Patagonia Down Sweater. BackpackGearTest.org has a number of reviews of down and synthetic jackets/sweaters; that site might give you some leads.

I like the versatility of the R1 Hoody + Ion but could it replace the WM Flight as my primary insulation?

No way dude. These items serve different purposes. R1 for on the move warmth and Flight jacket fer chillin' out in camp. If you can wait a bit WM is coming out with a hooded version of the Flight that'll be a fair bit warmer. If ya can't wait Montbell has the Alpine Light that's just a couple of ounces heavier and less cash.

Nick,
It looks like you have a good start with your list. Personally, I only wear wool while hiking, with a wind shirt or poncho as necessary. I take 2 or 3 wool tops of varying thickness and mix & match them to dial in the insulation that's appropriate. As long as I'm on the move, this is all I need.

For camp & rest stops, I have a Patagonia Micropuff Hooded jacket with Polarguard insulation 0.6" thick. I prefer synthetic insulation in a camp jacket due to it's tolerance for wetness in case I brush up against vegetation or a gust of wind causes a wet tree to dump it's stored drops from an earlier rain.

For really cold temps in camp, I layer a Montbell Alpine down vest under the micropuff, and add micropuff pants.

I like the wool for it's cozy feel, it's warmth when wet, the multi weight layering options, and it's packability. I don't like fleece because it's bulky to pack and it is a one layer option.

I agree that if your going to spend good money on a down piece, get one that provides real insulation. Down is so light and packs so small, why not? A vest, jacket or, hooded parker is up to you. I like the vest because I have the synthetic hooded parker and wool beanie & balaclava. If it gets any colder than all this could protect me from, I'm crawling into my down sleeping bag!

I agree completely and have relegated what fleece and other synthetics I still own to casual in-town use and gone back to pure merino wool for all my outdoor activities, year-round. I have Smartwool, Icebreaker and MEC stuff, IB is the best, MEC is surprisingly good and SW is crap which develops little holes after one handwashing and stretches wildly out of shape…junk!

For the jacket, I would go with the new WM hooded version of the Flight or an Nunatak one of similar weight, FAR beyond anything else. I have a Montbell T-Wrap UL synthetic and it is a neat little rig, BUT, it won't touch even moderate cold.

If, you decide on a synthetic jacket, I have an Integral Designs Rundle jacket and it is superb, one of the most comfortable ones I have ever had…and that is quite a number. I use it more than my ID Dolomite or my down expedition parka now and even in pretty cool weather, it keeps me warm.

Down is still best for weight/warmth and a really good down jacket, in dry weather, is just a joy to wear in camp after a long hard day.

I also use eVENT shells now and find them better than anything else I have tried; I have two by Integral Designs and may buy another from Wildthings, who also make superb gear, based on what I now have from them. Some options, anyway.

Keep 1 for base layer-Long Sleeve Midweights (Syn + Wool)
Dump-Marmot Driclime Original (8oz)
Keep if it keeps you warm but read below-TNF Primaloft Jacket (22oz)
Dump-LS Capilene 1 (hiking)
Keep for wind and rain-Driducks (rain)
Get a sun shirt that will be your baselayer for the hot and sunny days and you can layer it over your baselayer for colder days.

Pieces I'm eyeing:
Patagonia R1 Hoody-Use synthetic high loft insulation instead like your Primaloft jacket which you can replace with a Patagonia Micro Puff Pullover.
Marmot Ion- no point if you have DriDucks
Western Mountaineering Flight Jacket-or any good down jacket. Get a Montbell Light Alpine jacket and save yourself the money.
Montbell Thermawrap* (wasn't too impressed by the warmth of the Montbell Down Inner – so I'd probably go with the WM Flight instead of the Montbell)-no point.

Hey,

Just wanted to point out this thread and the post by BPL member Richard Nisley – it's been very helpful for me in making gear choices:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/9378/index.html

I picked up the new Marmot Cauldron vest yesterday. I'm going to try it this weekend over my Patagonia Capilene 3. It's supposed to get down into the 30's, so it should be a decent test. A friend used it on the CT recently and was very happy with it.

I didn't notice this mentioned, but I find that having a 1 oz fleeze cap and 1 oz fleece gloves are one of my most important pieces of thermo regulating items. By adding these 2 ounces I will wear only a silk weight poly LS zip T-shirt with a shell (marmot precip or golite virga) while hiking in temps from 20 to 45 degrees. I have no need for insulation while walking and I get cold easily. Now stop long and its a different story. Then I add the Montbell down inner while resting and as long as the temps are 20+ this is all I need.

Jamie

My experiences mirror Jamie's. Hat and gloves makes a huge difference.

Quite so. A light fleece balaclava and hat mixed with a light pair of gloves and some fleece mitts will have you really warm in no time for 8oz.

I just spent a couple nights in 25-32 temperatures to test out some UL stuff and I actually walked away being even more of a believer in the UL movement. Cold seems to have a way of making you earn your UL wings as you learn very quickly whether your minimalist packing and sleeping system was enough. For me, it was not only enough, but I didn’t even get a chill. It was a bit bizarre for someone like me who typically carries a nice Feathered Friends bag and extra clothing for outings in these temperatures. I tend to get cold easily too and I didn’t hit the sack with a warm drink or excessive carb intake to try to pre-warm my system as I wanted a genuine test to see how cold I would be.

On my head, I wore a fleece baklava which went deep into my neckline. On my hands, MerinoWool liner gloves which I actually don’t think were needed since my core was already warm enough to keep my extremities warm. On my body, lightweight SmartWool long underwear. I used a WM Caribou, a BPL bivy, and GG ¾ thinlight pad with my pack under my legs to get them off the ground.

I was plenty warm, but I think (at least for me anyway) cold temperatures make me mentally interpret “weight” on my body as warmth. I actually had a hard time sleeping because I had to keep checking my sanity because the gear was all so lightweight I had a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that I was indeed warm without the feeling of being bundled or weight of a heavy blanket. About the only time I felt how cold it was outside was when I came out of the bivy and sat on my Tyvek ground cloth over the cold ground. Well, that, and when nature called.

In the end, and much like many have likely found, you can find warmth with the right system, good loft, and the right environment at a very minimal weight.

nm