MEC Merlin -3C bag

I have been a MEC member since the "coop" started, over 35 years and even received a lapel pin for this some time ago. I also HAD an MEC bag about 30 years ago, but, not this model, of course.

Generally, most MEC gear is of average quality and I prefer other brands, although SOME of their stuff is pretty good; I find their merino wool clothing far superior to Smartwool, but, not up to Icebreaker, as an example.

I have a number of bags, including a WM Alpenlite and there is NO comparison between a MEC Merlin and a WM bag, IMHO. BTW, I am NOT one of the WM "cultists" one finds on many hiking sites who go bonkers anytime WM is not mentioned without genuflections, I actually find Integral Designs down bags and expecially my Valandre Shocking Blue to be superior.

So, I would strongly recommend getting the WM IF you can afford it and a Valandre Mirage is another option.

nm

ANY bag will look lofty when hanging, that is a major reason why gear stores invest in the expensive/space consuming racks used to display bags. If, you want to truely compare bags, you need to use them extensively and this will give you a far more realistic example of the actual quality of a given bag(s).

If, you put a MEC bag, that is of EQUAL over-all and fill weight, beside a WM bag, or an ID bag or a Valandre, the difference becomes quite apparent. You CANNOT get "something for nothing" in this hard old world and the WM's surged/hot cut edges, immpeccable stitching and instant re-loft after pressure indicate it's high quality.

But, if you simply WANT a MEC bag, why not, this is about fun and if that is your preference, then that is a fine basis to choose on. I only post on gear I have USED and I have yet to see a MEC bag that is equal to the best makers such as those I mentioned.

nm

The MEC bag weighs much MORE than the WM bag, according to MEC's own site and THAT is what I tried to point out. For roughly 20-25% greater weight, it gives you THREE degrees Celcius more warmth and a small amount more loft, assuming their stats. are correct.

I do not see this as any improvement, the consistent reports of WM's conservative estimates of their bag's temp. ratings, which my use of them has borne out in practice, tends to make me think that the WM bag would be at least as warm in the field…and 525 gms. in weight contrasted to the MEC's 690…..

The simple fact is that WM bags are MUCH better than MEC bags and longterm use of these will demonstrate that. Sorry, I was confused by your post(s), as you first said that you examined the bags hanging and then stated that you had laid them flat; this will tend to show bags differently.

nm

That may be YOUR conclusion, it is not mine as the extra warmth is THREE degrees more for a lot more weight. I would bet serious coin, based on using both WM and MEC bags that the WM bags are, weight for weight, much warmer than the MEC ones.

The Merlin -10 bag, one more suited to BC conditions, is heavier than the WM Versalite and also has NO collar, while the WM-V. HAS an extremely effective collar. They are RATED a mere TWO degrees Celsius apart, but, again, the WM bag will beat the MEC in cold weather.

I care about function, longevity and performance, I don't care about initial cost as top quality bags last many years and so this is minor, to me, anyway. My MEC bag fell apart and after relatively little use, I wouldn't buy another or take one as a gift.

BUT, while they will not STOCK a full selection of WM bags, the wonderful, "progessive" folks at MEC WILL NOT allow WM to ship their bags into Canada to any other retailer…..funny, this is the same outfit that used to whinge and snivel about gear retailers in Vancouver supposedly trying to block suppliers selling to THEM, ostensibly to keep prices high…..kinda ironic, eh?

nm

David,

I appreciate the side by side, even if only instore. Did you happen to notice whether the Merlin now had a zipper tape or not? Older reviews cite this as a concern. Any comment on the fabric? Does the MEC feel noticeable heavier lighter or more durable.

Dewey,
Thanks for the input. With all due respect though, it appears you have a beef with MEC. This makes it a bit hard for me to critically assess your comments. Whilst I agree that some of there design and execution is sketchy at best, they do also have some gems in amongst the ore. I'm trying to find out if the Merlin is one of them.

I agree that you get nothing for nothing. I guess I'd like to see where the Merlin cuts the corners, and find out if these are a suitable compromise.

The Merlin claims some very weird girth measurements that would appear to make it suitable for an anorexic 14 year old, but every online review calls it as roomier than the Summerlite. What's the deal there? If it's roomier, I'd expect it to be heavier. That's probably acceptable. If it's 120g (4oz) over advertised weight, that's not.

A 165g increase in weight for a 3 degree increase in temp rating (assuming weights and ratings are accurate) seems reasonablish. WM claim a 170g weight difference in same girth bags (Megalite to Alpinelite) to gain 5 degrees. If you add in a girth increase, this weight increase would be more.

Dewey, you're calling the Merlin -10C bag as much heavier than the Versalite. MEC list the Merlin as 940g and the Versalite as 1010g. How much overweight do you weigh the -10C Merlin at, and do you think the -3C is a similar overweight. (I'm happy to trust the WM to be within 30g based on reviews on BPL. This is one of the things I believe you're paying for.)

I think that you'll find in every market outside the US that WM choose to go through a single distributor, giving (selling?) them exclusive rights. This is certainly the same in Australia, where they have also chosen a more conservative importer/direct retailer. This limits the range of bags available and controls the price. A Summerlite here costs A$649 (US$450 or CAN$540). I'm not sure you can only blame MEC for this.

Once again, thanks for the input guys, and if anyone else has seen/used them, feel free to chime in. I know I've seen a couple of other posts from users in the past.

Mec makes some good stuff and they do stand by their products.

If you can from Australia I'd call their mail order line (or email) and get the specs on the bags – girths, weights of down vs. fabric, and anything else you need regarding the finishing of the bags.

Once you know the weight of the down in the bag and the girths it should be simple to compare to the WM bags via the chart on the WM website.

Hope that helps!

Rod, have you read this thread on practical backpacking forums? Someone compares the merlin with a summerlite and the merlin doesn’t look too shabby. Seems like it could be anywhere from 30-100g over advertised weight.

Supposedly the fill weight is Small (330g) / Reg (350g) / Long (375g). With 800+ fill power down I think you could be fairly confident that it would be at least as warm as the summerlite, and probably noticeably warmer (summerlite has 275g in regular, but it is also narrower).

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. If you get one let us know how it goes! I got a great deal on a WM ultralite a while back and it’s great. If I’d been aware of the MEC merlin I might have been tempted though, as I ideally wanted a bag that was rated somewhere between the summerlite and the ultralite and I would have saved about 100 bucks. Still, the ultralite does have the full down collar, which is priceless when temps get down to freezing!

Ashley

I checked out that review. They were also the ones that were concerned about the zipper getting stuck.

One problem that I've noticed with MEC is bracket creep, which is why I'd ideally like to get the skinny on a current one. MEC tend to post a set of specs, and then stick with it over an extended period of time, even if they make changes.

I spent about ten hours in MEC when I was over there last year, but the Merlin wasn't really on my radar then, so I missed out on scoping it out. Hence my enquiry here.

Robert,

I've been pretty happy with their customer service/returns. I returned a Windstopper softshell top that I'd had for 4 years when I was there last year. I'd only worn it a handful of times, since I found it not breathable enough. They had no problems at all taking it back.

My big problem from here is postage, so I'm keen to get it right the first time, regardless of which way I go.

Rod,
I have seen both the -3 and -10 Merlin in person. They are nice bags at a good price. They actually have a -3* at the MEC across the street from me (I was there yesterday). When I was in the market for a winter bag (~2 years ago), I was going to go with the -10 Merlin, but they didn't have it in stock, so I grabbed the WM Versalite.
Now, I realize your question is about the -3 version…but just for comparison, here's the story. Last year when my buddy was looking at getting a winter bag, I had convinced him to go for the WM Versalite (like me!). When we got to MEC, they had the -10 Merlin in stock, so he grabbed that instead. We did some chilly winter camping last year…one night was about -12*C to -15*C. I was toasty all night and in the morning he told me he was cold (wearing base layer only), but he lived. Another night droppped below -20*C and I slept fine again (base layer and VB), he didn't complain but had to sleep with his parka, insulated pants and boots.
Moral of the story…I believe they are good bags that can hold their rating. Great price too. Also, MEC has the best return policy in the world…along the same lines as REI – anything goes. If you need to know specifics about something, I can run over and find out – let me know.
HTH

"My big problem from here is postage, so I'm keen to get it right the first time, regardless of which way I go."

Rod, find out their shipping price and let me know. It has been my experience that companies charge too much (or use the most expensive) for shipping and then screw international buyers for import duties. You can pay online and I can pick it up and ship it to you..and I'll fill out the customs form just right.
Robin Hood
p.s. not that I want to change your mind, but Brett from Japan gets some killer deals on Montbells at the outlet there – I've bought a number of things from him.

nm

Steve,

Thanks for the offer. Which MEC are you near? I did a bit of a tour of them when I was over last year. I have to say that MEC are not to bad on postage. They ship International Express, up to $200 for $50. It sounds a lot, but I pay no Canadian taxes by shipping direct. I figure that saves what, $30? If I order by Wed, I receive it by the following Friday. That's not bad! It would probably be cheaper to ship surface but they don't offer that option. It's not as reliable on the time lines, and I'd be getting a lot more nervous with a $200 sleeping bag, than a Vapour Trail. (BTW I took it out a couple of weeks ago. It was great, although I see your desire for pockets. I have a couple of ideas on that tho) Generally the actual shipping cost on a $200 parcel is between $45 and $55, so not bad. Where I'll take a caning is if the new ones in Dec cost $205. That pushes it up to $70 shipping.

David,

I'm pretty realistic on MEC quality. I'm not expecting it to be better than WM, I'm more interested in if the trade offs are acceptable. We need an objective weight/warmth/quality/cost scale. I probably wouldn't pay CAN$125 to save 165g, if the warmth and quality are close or similar. But I wouldn't be trying to save $125 on a bag that's going to fall apart next year either

In reply to your last queries, I do NOT have …a beef…with MEC, some of those who founded it were friends of mine, but, the situation with WM is not what MEC was founded to do. However, as I posted, if one WANTS an MEC bag, great, go for it.

MEC does not stock the WM Versalite, the weight you mention is for the WM Apache and that is a GT-shelled bag, so, it is heavier….but, warmer.I have carefully examined the Merlin bags, both of them, at the MEC main store as I go there to see a friend of mine who has worked in the office for years.

I do not see these as anywhere close to WM in quality and having owned and used bags from both WM and MEC here in western/northern Canada, I seriously doubt that the function, especially over time, will be close to equal.I note a previous poster,s comments that indicate that his companion was cold in very moderate winter temps. in his Merlin, while he was warm in his WM, that should tell you something.

In backpacking/mountaineering gear, more than in almost anything I can think of, you get exactly what you pay for. MEC targets the casual, recreational users in most of their gear and that is fine, BUT, when/if a piece of gear fails you on a trip, their excellent return policy does not mean much deep in the wilderness, far from replacement.

Very simply, WM is among the roughly five finest bag manufacturers in the world, the others are FF, Integral Designs, Valandre and Peter Hutchison Designs. I own and use bags from all of these except PHD, which I probably will get a custom Hispar from later this coming winter. I also owned/used an original Marmot from the Grand Junction days, a superb bag much superior to those now offered.

I would bet my entire collection of six bags by the above makers that you would find a WM bag much superior to any MEC bag, especially over longterm or hard use. I would not do this had I not had sufficient experience with both makes and others to feel confident about the outcome…fair enough?

Rod,
I'm across the street from the Toronto store. I didn't realize that you guys didn't pay any customs taxes. If I order something from the States I pay hefty duty fees – and it really gets to me! ~$50 shipping isn't bad, especially if you get it in a week or so – I see your point. For those wondering about the Vapor Trail comment, I sent a pack down to Rod in 2004 and he just got it 2 months ago!..;)

nm

I have imported thousands of dollars worth of outdoor gear from the USA since 2004-5, from Mystery Ranch, Wildthings, Kifaru, Bear River Outfitters, (Hilleberg, Valandre, Integral Designs tents, etc.), Prolite Sports and Northern Lights of Bozeman, MT (WM bag) and Gossamer Gear just a week or two ago.

I have NEVER paid ANY duty, only the shipping costs, GST and PST plus that Canada Post handling fee. I learned to avoid UPS and FedEx as THEY DO charge some bullschit "brokerage fees" which REALLY drive your prices up, could these be what you refer to?

I have also returned gear for replacement/refund to the USA and never had a problem doing so.

nm

…

David
Off topic I know
A story about your comment on purchasing macpac for you. I live in Australia and macpac is based in New Zealand (Although a lot of there products are manufactured else ware) now I like there gear and have a bit of it. A few years ago I decided to buy a macpac amp pack so I looked local both online and in shops, I also looked online overseas and eventually I purchased my pack from America. In the end I had it delivered to my door for about $100 less than if I had bought it locally? That is despite it having travelled around the world. I have since bought another one off the gear swap forum for my wife from the u.s too.
What the reason for this is I don’t know but for you u.s residents enjoy your cheap gear but spare a thought for us in the rest of the world
Darren

Hi Darren

The reason is simple: the current mark-up in Australian outdoors shops is about 100% over the typical USA RETAIL price. It is also 100% over the wholesale price from Australian and NZ manufacturers.

The local gear shops are slowly shooting themselves in the foot (both feet) over gear. However, many of them have switched to making most of their profit margin from selling psuedo-outdoors fashion clothing to street dweebs. The gear in the windows is steadily becoming window dressing to sell the fashion clothing inside.

In addition, many of the shops are switching to promoting job lots of made-in-China gear with unknown fancy brands. The profit margin on this stuff is unreal: I regularly get offered day packs and the like direct from China at maybe $4 per unit in lots of 100+. And they sell this stuff for $50+.

Cheers