Trail runners and snow?

Brett,

I'm at the same point as you. This coming winter, I am going to try Wigwam Wool Silk Hiker socks (very thick & cushy) with Rocky GoreTex socks over them in Montrail Hardrock trail runners.

I'm sure this system has it's limits at severely cold temps but I will try it on some day hikes first to see how it works out.

I use Montrail Hardrocks for my 3 season hiking so I purchased another pair sized up to accomodate these layers.

Just don't plan on using them to kick steps on steep snow slopes; there are easier ways to end it all.

What do you do during 3 season when its wet or snows, just rotate dry socks and dry out the runners?

I'm assuming the hardrocks are non-gore?

I always ignore th wet feet issue. The real problem I run into is traction. I have yet to find a trail runner with the traction of a basic vibram lugged boot on snow.

Last winter I used Montrail Hurricane Ridge XCR trail runners with Smartwool socks and gators for all snowshoeing trips and I was very pleased. The MSR snowshoe bindings work great with this footwear selection.

Montail has just come out with their Hardrock Mid GTX trail shoe which looks to be a good option for winter adventures.

Now if I can just work the Chaco's into this

> I have yet to find a trail runner with the traction of a basic vibram lugged boot on snow.

I know the problem, but I see it slightly differently from this. I have tried wearing very soft-soled shoes in the snow and lots of problems. So I moved to joggers with fairly rigid soles, and that solved the problem.

So, to me it is not whether it is a jogger or a boot which matters – rather it is how stiff the sole is for digging into the snow.

The New Balance MT1110GT joggers (Spotlite on BPL) I have seem to function reasonably well in the snow. They work very well on snow shoes too.

> I always ignore the wet feet issue.
I do agree completely, except that in the snow it is nice to have dry feet… :-) The MT1110GT joggers have a Goretex membrane which worked just fine.

Cheers

And the problem is that I wear 14/15 which really limits my options

And what gators would be the best for something like this?

Forty Below makes a very nice trailrunner specific gator (Light Energy TR mode)that will allow you to really push the use of this type of footwear into very cold conditions and work well when using snowshoes.

FWIW. I spoke with the 40 below group in depth at the end of last year regarding their Light Energy overboots. The problem I run into is that on multi-day winter trips it starts to be an issue trying to keep the shoes from freezing. The LEO are a thin (I think 3mm?) neoprene overboot which would keep your shoes dry all day and then the overboot can be removed at camp and literally dusted off. Apparently the frost that builds up on the overboot doesn't enter the fabric itself. Of course, then the question of condensation build up from the inside comes into play…which could be avoided by using a vapour barrier sock. This IS the combination that they recommended to me and that I will be testing this winter.
And Brett, each set of overboots is custom made (ie. you trace your shoe on a piece of paper and fax/e-mail it to them) so any size is fair game. Definitely something to look into.

It is all about traction and having a good shank under my foot in snow. Trail runners are comfy, don't get me wrong, but they flex too much for icy snow conditions. The stiffness of boots is a good thing in snow. The hard toe cap and hard leather on the side is for me what allows me to kick/cut into snow.
I don't wear trail runners in snow to be blunt. I wear leather boots.

I've climbed a combination of normal trail / off trail rock & snow covered rock with ice patches in NZ using Montrail Hardrocks. Smartwool merino hiking socks under REI gtx socks kept my feet warm & Grivel Gripper 6-pt crampons gave great security. The ability to feel the terrain was weird compared with the isolation of stiff boots normally worn in alpine conditions. The cush Hardrocks were far superior to boots on the steep knee-hammering descent. Not sure how this setup would go on a multi-day trip, but on my long full days they were great. It's worth experimenting with a light combo in these conditions just to feel the difference!

Brett, if you have good G-tex shoes (Montrails Hurricane Ridge, for instance) a good snug gaiter will set up you just fine. The only concern is to get a gaiter that can be snugged down on a shoes enough so postholing won't force snow under the gaiter. Both my Mtn Hardwear spandura gaiters (low) and my old faithful OR gaiters (high) do this just fine.

I haven't owned boots in ages, but I also don't do much technical winter stuff, either.

As others have noted… if you need to kick stairs, then something heavier with a stiffer toe is pretty important… but they can work well in the snow, especially with snowshoes. I would generally recommend adding some screws to the soles of trail runners for additional traction for when you run into icy conditions.

I found that I didn't have as much problems with cold coming up through the soles as my traditional boots, but they were less insulating on top, so I needed to use a heavier sock and needed to size up the trail runners to have extra room. In colder weather I really like rbh designs insulated vapor barrier socks. Worked well for be with nothing else down to around 0F.

Something I have found that gives good, secure, dependable traction for reasonably light weight, is the Kahtoola Microspikes. They fit well on any shoe, including trail runners. They are infinitely better than other non-crampon solutions. The Microspikes weigh 12.5 oz in size medium and 11.4 oz in small.

That being said, I wouldn't climb in them. Kahtoola makes some nice crampons for that activity. Personally, I stick to milder terrain in winter conditions.

A full height protective gater for snow travel I have found is Outdoor Research Celestrial gater. Essentially a GoreTex Paclite gater (good for snow travel but not bushwacking). They weigh 5.8 oz in large and 5.0 oz in small. These come up just below the knee.

Totally agree – the Kahtoola crampons are very good, but not for technical climbing! Their fit is excellent in crampons and they cope with fairly steep hard snow, and give the user (me!) a lot of confidence and safety.

I use Innov8 shoes (318gtx) and find they are great in snow, or a non-goretex pair and waterproof socks; it's very important to get a decent pair of gaiters as well – avoid front fasteners (especially velcro) as the constant pounding on the snow does them no good and they open up – last year I used front fastening velcro gaiters – total mistake.

How would the Montrail Hardrock Mid GTX differ from the Keen Targhee II Mids I have? The Hardrock Trail Runners do look nice though and are something I would have to consider. How do they do in the 80+ temps?

The shoes I have currently are a pair of Merrell Full Pursuit Goretex XCRs that I plan on using with my Kahtoola microspikes. I would like to do the waterproof sock over the wool sock thing but my feet are at a minimum a size 14 so to do this I would need a size 15 waterproof sock to fit over the wool socks and I have not been able to find any yet. I did try the Stephenson's Warmlite sock but it bunches up way too much to be useful. The Forty Below Light Energy TR Overboots seem nice and I guess I could use them with my Chaco sandals. To put them in a shoe I would probably need a size 16 shoe which are even harder to find as I really am skeptical of their durability as an overshoe and would use them as a sock. Is there anywhere else I should be looking for a waterproof sock at? I guess I could always use bread bags in a pinch but that would keep too much of the water on the inside.

I do like the idea of gaiters to keep the snow out. Someone had suggested Mountain Hardwear and they do make a Trail Gaiter that is low and made for trail runners but it is only water resistant. Outdoor research makes a Flex-Tex Gaiter but it would seem to be too small. I could not find the Outdoor Research Celestial gaiter.

And to let people know, this is not for mountaineering but rather just kick around type stuff and small hills.