framed or frameless pack?

The Jam2 is a frameless pack and you use your sleeping pad to create a frame by making it into a circle.

I'm debating the same question right now.

Look at the Six Moon Designs Comet or Gossamer Gear Mariposa Plus, the sleeping pad + stays configuration is the closest thing to a framesheet for under 2 pounds as far as I can tell.

For 2 pounds you could do ULA Circuit or Granite Gear Vapor Trail.

Others can probably comment on functionality under loads as I've never used any of them.

Jay,

Recognizing that everyone's tollerance is different, I have the original Jam pack (very similar to the Jam2) and my shoulders get pretty uncomfortable as the day wears on at about 20 lbs.

Generally, I like the pack but with that much volume, one can pack a heavy load but IMO the frameless nature just can't support it. I do use it for very short winter trips when puffy, high volume gear is needed but doesn't weigh much and where there is no need for skis or snowshoes.

Hi Jay,

I highly recomend you read through the user reviews of both type packs; there is a lot of good info there.

A couple of questions:

1) Is the quoted 11 lb. baseweight with or without the
pack weight included?

2) What is your expected food weight per day?

3) Will you be hiking in environments where you must pack
large quantities of water?

All of these can have a significant impact on your choices. For instance, when hiking in my home range where creeks are everywhere, I'm never carrying much water. Hiking in the Southwest however, I'm oftened forced to carry up to two gallons. In cold conditions, I carry as much as double the amount of food compared to warm weather trips of the same duration. Personally I like some sort of frame, except on the lightest of summer trips, where total pack weight will be less than 10 lbs.

thats 11 lb with pack. i usually carry 3 L of water a day but for the week long walk only a bottle because i'll be walking along a river. and i wouldnt have a clue how much my food weighs per day

Hi Jay,

I went through the same process earlier this year, and ended up with the ULA Circuit. Being new to UL, and having used a framed pack for 20 years, I wasn't confident enough to make the jump to frameless immediately. The Circuit has supports and padding, and depending on your sleep pad, you can suppliment the support with the pad near your back. My typical pack weight for 3/4 days including water is about 8kg and the Circuit handles this very well. In the Australian conditions, which I know because I used to hike in the Ozzie bush, the fabric will be fine, it's very robust. I've no complaints about the pack.

Check out the reader reviews on this site for more information.

One word of advice- buy the pack last in your attempt to go UL- better after you know your weights and volume needs than to try squeeze all your gear into something you bought earlier you liked the look of.

cheers,
fred

I think you're pushing a Jam2 at that kind of weight.

I've been playing with heav(ier) packs lately for trips where they're unavoidable (lots of food, winter, climbing gear) and using my wife's Jam2 around that weight is definitely it's upper limit. I'd say get something with a true frame sheet or stays at the very least.

i already have the osprey aether which i could use on the week long trips which are only about once a year. would the jam2 hold enough food for 2 or 3 days plus my base weight? or would i still be better off gettin one with stays?

I think you are fine with the Jam 2 as long as your total weight is under 20 pounds. I used one just about every day bike commuting with at least that weight and on many 2-3 day hikes. No problem.

I echo Michael’s comments that individual tolerance may vary.
I used a Jam 2 (version 2) on a weeklong trek this summer, and I love the pack. At the heaviest, my pack weight (base weight + food + water) was 25 lbs. I found the pack quite comfortable with 12hr days. I consumed my food at 2lbs/day. Unlike what Stuart suggests, I cut a foam pad to torso length (I place the Jam under my legs) and then scored it so that it would fold up. I placed this against back of the pack to form the frame.
This set-up worked well even with a large bear canister (BV 500), but the canister did change the way pack rode.
Also, the new Jam 2’s (version 3) have a beefier suspension. They’ve been reviewed on this site.

If you're wondering whether a frameless pack will be supportive enough, it probably won't be-IMO. If we take a step back from strictly counting grams, and instead consider the whole equation, the comfort of a framed pack will usually be better. The Osprey Talon 44 weighs 2.25 pounds. Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone weighs 3 pounds. I eat 2 pounds of food/day; for a week, you'd have ~14 pounds of food + 1 Liter of water= 2 pounds. Consumables weight, less fuel, 16 pounds. So you're looking at about 27 pound starting weight. The added few ounces to a pound or so of a frame will carry the weight better, with very little drawback.

ok i'll keep looking at framed packs then. i have osprey aether at the moment but once i get lighter weight gear i think it will be too big.

Jay,

What sort of volume are you looking at?

Rod

good question i think ill wait until i have everything and then decide what pack size i need. im guessing though about 50 L