tarp use in high winds

I've spent close to 200 nights in the field under a simple Walmart tarp. Most people start having issues around 30 mph. Exemplary rigging can bump this up 10 mph or so. Best approach is to run a ridge line of thickish rope between two trees, tucker hitch it TIGHT, then use smaller cords tied to the tarp itself and pruisked to the ridge rope to tighten it all down. Rig it low, each corner on the ground, and guy each corner in two directions. Then pray the wind doesn't shift 90 degrees. It should also be noted that rigging a tarp this low to the ground makes it very likely that wet snow will squish you like a bug. The aforementioned ridge rope helps, but is by no means a fix-all.

My opinion: if you're risking gnarly weather, especially above treeline, get a tent. My BD Firstlight is light, takes up little space, and has survived winds to 70 mph (in Iowa! close call with a tornado) while guyed out well. And you don't have to worry about precip blowing in on your face.

Since Peter's question was specifically for use ABOVE treeline, would trekking poles work instead??

A tarp can be setup every bit as stable as a tarptent, the differences in windblown rain/snow/mist protection and insect protection. Either way if the wind shifts a lot then you will be in an interesting and exciting situation!

I am always interested about this comparison of tent vs tarp. I live in the UK with exposed hill and mountain terrain. There is no established tree line. I have wrote of my reasons why I don't use a tarp. Allison point is good on the wind changing. Add rain and it is an issue. So if the wind changes you are at a point you need to getup and re pitch the tarp. A tent user needs to shut the door. If the wind was so bad as to flatten a tent you would most likely not be pitched there, not paid attention to the weather forecast, or you get up take it down before it is blown down and walk to a sheltered spot. Either way a tent is most likely OK in 40 – 45mph wind. Some people have pointed out 30mph seems to be the top end for tarps.

Would also try to determine wind/storm direction before pitching and try to locate the most sheltered area you can find above treeline. Dave’s suggestion is dead on about a low pitch.

Found out 3 months ago when a sudden storm system came out of the blue tearing through NY heading east at 35mph moving into the direction that I was camped out in, was in a exposed area at the time my pocket radio blasted a severe weather advisory stating that all in the listening area to seek shelter in a secure building or car.

Problem was my car was 9 miles away and chance that I would make it back before the storm front was pretty iffy.

Soon the reality of this situation kicked in I calmly took a reading of where the incoming storm was coming in from and rigged an 8×10 flying diamond configuration with high end tied off to a fairly stable tree, which had quite a bit of alpine growth to shield from rain in case storm shifted it’s direction. Others sides were pitched low and pulled as taunt as possible using every line, stake and found objects could find to hold the tarp in place.

After this was rigged, did a shot of vodka, made my peace with God and went to sleep.

Woke up around 1am to what sounded like a full on faucet blasting next to my head, and a slight tarp flapping, all guy lines still in place and as taunt as when I turned in, everything under the tarp was dry, went back to sleep.

The next day there were a few small puddles at the entry but everything was dry. Combination of tarping skills along with weather info, determining storm front’s direction and just plain luck worked in this instance, couple things to keep in mind if caught in this type of scenario.

Jim

I am not so worried about rain/mist/insect protection as I will probably pair the tarp w/ a bivy of some kind. I am not at all worried about snow b/c I don't plan on using the tarp in times of the year when significant snowfall is a possibility (light dusting however could be an issue year round). However, I would like some form of shelter that could handle 40-50 mph winds b/c I like to camp above treeline whenever possible.

I know that various thru-hikers of the CDT used tarps all the way through (Francis Tapon comes to mind). Since the CDT has very long sections of above-treeline terrain, how do they make it through if they could only handle 30 mph (I'm sure they experienced higher winds than that)? Did they hide under boulders w/ their bivys or something?

So, I will add another question. What would be some of the lightest shelters that could handle serious wind (40-50 mph)? My guess would be a pyramid but I have no experience w/ them. Would any of the tarptents be able to handle anywhere near that wind speed (such as the improved TT Rainbow)?

EDIT: thanks for the tips, Jim. I started writing my post and I did not see your suggestions.

The question still remains, what to do when there are NO trees around?? This is the default scenario in this part of the world when you get much above 3-4000 ft. In many ways it's ironic that Tom Hennessey comes to the South Island every year to work on his hammock designs. Sure there are part of the island (and Stewart Isalnd) with lots of trees, but the rest of it is nothing but tussock and rocks. Not ideal for tarps (or hammocks) IMHO.

Having said that, all you really need to survive a hurricane is to stay warm enough to weather it out. Even just a bivy bag can help you do this as long as you don't get blown away, a well-pegged tarp will certainly help too. In true gale force winds, I suspect a super low, properly pitched tarp would have more chance of standing through the night than a higher profile tent improperly pitched.

Peter, it looks like I also cross posted. As mentioned in other threads, our Double Rainbow has survived several full-on gales above treeline. It required something like 14 pegs (plus guylines) and two trekking poles, but I suspect a securely pitched tarp would also need quite a few pegs, guylines (and trekking poles if there are no trees).

Peter,
Have used a Hex in 40-50 mph winds with much success above treeline, sides did flap with the more severe gusts, at the time. Perimeter was also anchored under rocks which were then buried in snow, spent the night on the summit of Mt Lafayette in March 05, was pretty exciting night to say the least. Would not have attempted this with a flat tarp due to the season and conditions, unless it was an emergency situation and was able to get below tree line where a whole different skill set would be applied.

Allison,
Above treeline would try to take advantage of any natural wind block I could find, boulder or ledge being a bit sturdier then a trekking pole, in that type of terrain guessing the soil might be a bit difficult to get a sturdy bite to hold in case of high winds, also would prefer the overall coverage/protection from incoming weather that natural surrounding could provide. Multiple stakes and guy lines are definitely crucial as well as rocks/sticks to tie off to, have run into issues with stakes in certain alpine zones up this way with more granite then actual soil.

Jim

Jim on the above tree line question. My tent has had several night in exposed summit camps – it has been fine at 30- 40mph and more. Point is the tarp user has to pitch in winds very low. Yes it can work. But I can sit up in my tent at 30 – 40mph winds and cook safely in the porch. A tarp user is laying low under the tarp with it just above his face. I don't see them as that practicable for use above a tree line. OK it can work, but it is not going to be a comfortable, or enjoyable time.

Peter,

I second the Hex 3 (I have the latest incarnation, the Shangri-La 3) for above tree line use, which is where I like to camp. I've used mine this summer in the Pyrenees, and every time I've camped, I've been hit by a pretty big storm and blow, and the SL3 held up perfectly. Mine weighs 650g and I use the 6 Golite stakes that came with it, and some tiny 1g stakes for the other stake out points, total weight 746g not inclusing hiking poles.

cheers,
fred

Martin,
Pitching sides low is crucial to the overall stability of a tarp shelter in high winds/inclement weather. With an elevated pitch in one end and center tie outs elevated then tied off there is plenty of head room for sitting up and cooking using the flying diamond configuration, should have mentioned this earlier.

Creative pitching is something tarp users need to figure out before attempting in challenging conditions. Practicing the configurations illustrated in BPL Lightweight Camping and Backpacking would be highly recommended.

Have been relying exclusively on flat & shaped tarps combined with a bivy for all 3 season conditions in alpine environment with great success, usually break out the Hex once snow starts to fall and temperatures drop.

Pedro, as mentioned above, I really like the BD Firstlight. Pretty light, especially if two people share the load. I've also seen Megamids do well in such conditions, though you need to anchor the bottom of the center pole with rocks or in a hole.

As for no trees with a tarp, I really don't have much experience here. I'd be very trepidatious using the trekking pole pitches I see most folks using.

I have to throw my vote in for the Golite Hex 3 also! (now Shangri-la). It's no good in hot, steamy, bug infested conditions but give it a winter ridge-line when your stuck in the tent indefintely and it shines!

Jim

With the flying diamond setup, is the high end pitched into the wind (putting you on the leeward side of *something* high enough and sturdy enough), or do you pitch the high end away from the wind (putting you on the windward side of *something* high enough and sturdy enough)??

I don't suppose you have any photos of this setup as used in high exposed treeless situations? It would make it easier to picture…

Allison,
Pitch would go with the high end in the opposite direction of blowing wind so it would blow over the tarp and not into it.
It is a hard to describe pitch, photo's I believe are on the MLD website listed under Super Tarp. instead of trekking pole imagine using a bolder or rock ledge to seal off the exposed front entrance.

Can achieve quite a bit of coverage with found objects if you know what your looking for.
Jim

Great thread, guys! Thanks for all the suggestions.

I think I will get a super cheap tarp from the hardware store and try it out in my backyard when it gets stormy. It is hard to decide on a shelter without getting some personal experience. If that doesn't work for me, then I will have to research some of the beefier tarptents/tents. However, in winter conditions a Shangri-la type shelter seems like the way to go.

Allison –

Do you have experience with any of the other HS Tarptent designs? Do you think that the DR is the most suitable for above treeline use?

Jim –

Could the flying diamond pitch be used with a shaped/caternary tarp or would it only work w/ a flat tarp?

10×10 flat tarp
using sticks
http://owareusa.com/images/tarpinstructorsetupfront.JPG
http://owareusa.com/images/InstructorTarpSetup.JPG
http://owareusa.com/images/Tarp%20Set%20up.jpg

boulders and walking stick
http://owareusa.com/images/tarpsm2.jpg

6×8 flat with ski pole and ice axe
http://owareusa.com/images/tarpdink.jpg

I highly recommend: The Ray-Way Tarp Book. He covers over 25 topics on wind, rain,snow, insects, methods of pitching and site selection. My 3 cents!

Peter,
This configuration seems to work best with flat tarps, have tried with limited success using a cat. cut, seems like pitching options are fairly limited. Rectangular with center tie outs and multiple perimeter tie outs seem to let you work with selected site a bit easier.

Some great examples of various pitches provided by Dave

>Do you have experience with any of the other HS Tarptent designs? Do you think that the DR is the most suitable for above treeline use?

Peter, we have used and loved both the original CloudBurst and the DR. WITH storm modification the DR has stood up very well to some impressive conditions above treeline. So has the CloudBurst, but it is harder to keep the Cloudburst from collapsing/flattening in strong winds. At some stage I will take photos of the DR as pitched for extreme weather. We cross peg the vestibule (need a picture for this) and pitch it side-on to what you might think is most stable.

I have never tarped in a gale above treeline so I can't really compare

>6×8 flat with ski pole and ice axe
http://owareusa.com/images/tarpdink.jpG

Right. So, lacking boulders or other upright supports, do you just use trekking poles? Would you still use a flying diamond, or would you set it up as in that last photo? Does a flying diamond need a square tarp to work effectively…?

Allison,
Yes, would use trekking poles in high winds, would see if I could construct some type of stone/scree base to add support to the trekking pole if needed. Trekking pole only would have less interior height, but more interior coverage, a flatter pitch would probably be best for conditions mentioned.

Can not give you a definite answer to the exact pitch, guessing whatever would work for the site/conditions at hand. Using tarps seems to force creative decision making on the fly, really enjoy that aspect of using them.

Hope this helps
Jim

Cheers Jim

"I know that various thru-hikers of the CDT used tarps all the way through (Francis Tapon comes to mind). Since the CDT has very long sections of above-treeline terrain, how do they make it through if they could only handle 30 mph (I'm sure they experienced higher winds than that)? Did they hide under boulders w/ their bivys or something?"

I used a Silshelter (a shaped tarp) for most of the CDT this summer, and for all of the Appalachian Trail (see my profile.) On the CDT I had no bivy. The Silshelter worked great until it got buggy. The key to using a tarp above treeline (and as you mentioned there is a LOT of country above treeline on the CDT) is picking where and how the pitch is made. I would focus on finding sheltered areas with good drainage, especially when it looked stormy. For example, if I thought it might get windy I wouldn't set up in a scenic saddle, regardless.

If it's important to you to set up above treeline in exposed areas, I would recommend a tent designed to handle high winds. Getting yourself and your gear wet in the wilderness in stormy conditions is far more dangerous than bears!