mini-firesteel problem

Did you scrape the paint of the firesteel? The come with a thin black paint on them, have to scrape it off with a knife or something to get to the silver/grey ferrocerium underneath it. It will spark up like a charm after that.

yup, scraped the paint. My best theory is that when the steel is perfectly smooth it doesn't spark. So you have to scrape to where it has a bit of an edge, then scrape that… that's my theory anyway…

Knife blades and spines vary with how well they work with a firesteel. For good results you need hard steel. Also, it helps if the spine of the blade is "sharp", ie squared. I've had knives that didn't produce sparks until I squared the spine of the blade with a file.

Yeah, mine worked well when it was square, then I think the back of the blade started rounding a little and didn't work so well. Seems kind of lame that the firesteel should be so finicky… Didn't want to have to carry the separate striker…

Your knife sounds like its made of a soft steel like stainless. As are most blades these days. This means that the spine started out with a square or "sharp" edge that could produce sparks. But after a little use the soft steel rounded and you no longer could make good sparks. If you want to use the spine as a striker get a high carbon steel(non-stainless) knife. You can also sharpen a part of your knives spine with a Dremel or a file.

You should also consider that your knife's hardness may vary based on how the blade was tempered. For example, the actual cutting edge on a good knife tends to be tempered fairly hard, so that it will retain an edge longer. The back of the knife blade however is probably tempered softer, so that it is a bit more flexible. If the entire blade was tempered as hard as the cutting edge, then when someone does something silly like use it to pry something, there wouldn't be any 'flex' to the blade, and there would be a much higher risk of the blade breaking. By having that backside of the blade tempered softer, the knife is more forgiving of these indiscretions. As a result, the backside of a knife is not ideal for use as a firesteel scraper (as you've discovered), as it will quickly lose that straight edge, and not produce sparks as effectively.

Many times the striker that comes with a firesteel is not ideal either, as the manufacturer tries to make them ergonomic (rounded edges and such), which impacts it's effectiveness. Personally, I replace them with a small bit of hacksaw blade – light, cheap, and doesn't lose it's edge. The same firesteel will typically produce a greater shower of sparks using a hacksaw blade instead of the included striker.

I think that the cause is the steel composition (may be the carbon content)

AS jim point i replaced my firesteel striker for another older one that i had from an old bcb flint. It looks a piece of saw, Using this striker the firesteel makes twice or more sparks.

Stainless or carbon?, Steel hardness? Neither matter at all. What you guys are calling a "firesteel" is actually not a firesteel at all, its Ferrocium. A firesteel is a peice of very hard steel that you scrape with a sharp piece of flint to make sparks. A ferrocium rod can be scraped with any sharp material to make sparks. You can actually scrape them with a sharp rock to make plenty of sparks. Go out and try it.

As to using the spine of a knife as a striker. It all has to do with how sharp the edge of the spine is. It is as simple as that, nothing more. Hope that helps.

-"As to using the spine of a knife as a striker. It all has to do with how sharp the edge of the spine is. It is as simple as that, nothing more. Hope that helps."

True, but soft steels will lose their edge quickly and they are harder to resharpen in the field. That is why I think a hard or high carbon steel would be a better choice if you are ging to use the spine as a striker.

But most well made knives are going to be hard enough to where it shouldn't dull the edge of the spine. I think any knife with a rockwell hardness of 55 or higher shouldn't dull that much. And besides you can always touch it up with a sharpening stone.

Sure cheap chinese steel and some of the old stainless steels like 420HC are pretty soft but Some of the stainless steels are actually pretty hard. s30v, vg10, 3G, ATS34 and 154cm are usually 60 rockwell hardness and above. So stainless steels can be just as good as a low alloy carbon steel when used as a striker for a ferro rod.

Now If you have a really hard high carbon low alloy steel you can actaully produce some sparks by striking a piece of flint down the spine of the knife. Where as a stainless steel will not produce a single spark.

Go to the hardwear store and buy a stainless steel hacksaw blade and a carbon steel hacksaw blade. Try them both on a ferro rod. They will produce the same exact amount of sparks.

> buy a stainless steel hacksaw blade and a carbon steel hacksaw blade.

I would be interested to know the brand which makes stainless steel hacksaw blades. I have only ever seen or heard of carbon steel blades.
Yes, I can of course find blades for cutting stainless steel.

Cheers

nm

Let's see if we can't clear this up a bit.

Whatever you use as a striker, it's effectiveness at generating sparks is based on it having a rigid, well-defined edge. As Joseph pointed out, the material that the striker is made of is not of immediate importance for the generation of sparks. The striker does not even need to be made of metal. It can be flint, obsidian, or even a bit of broken glass. It simply needs to have a rigid, well-defined edge, capable of causing tiny bits of your firesteel (ferrocerium rod, flint, or whatever you wish to call it) to break away when pressed along it's side. It's these little bits breaking away that get heat energy imparted to them that we observe as sparks. The more rigid and well-defined your striker edge is, the more of these little bits will flake off, and the more sparks you will get.

When we talk about the hardness of the striker though, we're mainly talking about how well the edge of that striker will remain effective with repeated use. While softer materials will quickly lose that well-defined edge, a harder material will take longer to lose that edge, so it remains effective as a striker for a much longer period of time.

Of course, just as with any cutting edge, if you can sharpen it's edge again, you can restore it's effectiveness as a striker. It's just a question of how much maintenance you want to invest in keeping your striker's edge effective.

I agree that a good sharp/square edge is needed to get a shower of sparks. I also found that trying to scrape too fast is part of the problem– good pressure and a slower strike works better for me.

If really in a tight spot, I would use the blade of a knife at the handle end, sacrificing that small area of sharp blade.

If you are going to modify a knife with a Dremel, making a half-round indentation that is the same arc as the firesteel will give the best surface area. Go slow and don't overheat the steel. The Tool Logic knives with a built-in firesteel have a notch in the blade for scraping the firesteel.

I have made a little fire kit by taking one of the cheap plastic match safes, epoxying a generic ferrocerrium rod on the side and packing the inside with tinder and a piece of hacksaw blade.

One hacksaw blade will make several scrapers– two with lanyard holes. A worn one is fine as the back side of the blade works great. I put the blade in a vice and snap it off. Vice grips or other pliers will work too. Wear eye protection.

I recently read a blog post that pertains to this conversation and might be worth a look for those interested. It pertains to properly ‘sharpening’ the back of your knife blade for use in fire-starting.

http://bensbackwoods.blogspot.com/2008/11/mora-knife-is-without-doubt-best.html

It always amazes me the pepole that chime in on forums who think they know what they are takling about, when in fact most are blowing smoke.

The reason why your knife didn't throw sparks as well is not because that the stainless is soft or that it is not carbon steel (this is B.S as I make knives for a living and know about steels and Rc hardness) it has to do as mentioned above, the spine of the knife was simply not squared or 90 degrees. A ferrocium rod will throw sparks no matter the steel being used, as long as the striker has a good sharp 90 degree edge. If not, it will not perform as well by throwing less then adequet sparks. With that said I don't reccomend using the cutting edge of your knife to do this as it could possibly ruin the temper of the blade and badly damage the edge.

A proper spark thrower should be made out of something like an old band-saw blade, about 3" long with the edges squared with like a 60 grit belt on a grinder.

Knife manufatures and makers often cut or round the edges of the spine so as to make the knife more user friendly. the only sharp part of the knife that you want is the cutting edge.

I had problems until I tried it many many times.

Hold it and pull it back. This works much better for me. Also try different speeds. Slower works better for me.

I use my mini-steel now even for alcohol stove lighting.

Practice, practice, practice.