Hiking poles and necessity for Ultralighters

i was told by my ortho doctor:"please get your pack weight down and use your hiking poles". he said they take some of the pressure off of knees. when i first started years ago with a 45 lb. pack(i know,crazy) and no poles, i realized, after many face plants(a tad klutzy)that i had to do something. the next year my husband cut down a cross country ski pole and put on a rubber tip. i did help, so the following year i purchased a "real" pair of hiking poles and they have been my constant companions ever since. would not be without them…..

> Because carrying poles when they are not providing little benefit adds weight – say a pound – that could better be left at home.

that's not really fair. As I said before, poles are not something you're carrying on your back (usually) so their weight doesn't affect you the same way. Actually, they're resting on the ground a good part of the time. You can't compare their weight to a similar weight of anything that's on your pack or even on your body (clothes, watch, ear rings… whose weight also affects you differently from anything in your pack does).

When I think of pole use, I don't really think in terms of weight but in terms of usefulness vs. the added complexity. Weight is such a negligible variable in the pole equation, in my opinion.

well, yeah, technically, you can but it's much more complex than just state the weight. Actually, I guess it's *really* complex and beyond most of us to do a meaningful comparison. It's kind of apples to oranges. Eventually, there must be a relation but not a simple one. Same with the footwear, the fact that it's another item that rests on the ground part of the time doesn't make it comparable to hiking poles. In totally unscientific fashion, I can feel it takes considerably more effort to raise my feet and put them forward than doing the same with a hiking pole but then it's not only the shoes but also the feet and legs that I'm raising and those weight the same no matter the shoes… most probably, I need to raise them higher than I do a hiking pole… complex stuff to make comparisons.

About the energy spent swinging poles forward, I have no idea. It just seems like little effort to me when I do it but don't ask for numbers. I know it may add up at the end of the day. Does it pay for the extra calories spent? No idea. I guess somebody may come up with a figure for calories spent from pole handling but how do we count the calories saved (if any at all)? from extra propulsion, from avoiding getting off balance…

My whole point is all this is so complex and so dependent on personal factors (how you use your poles, what you do with them and how) it's quite pointless to try to get a scientific answer so it's much more useful to choose based on personal preference. And, no, I don't think we've been brainwashed. Consider that going pole-less is something most of us have tried before so we know how it feels unlike, for example, the heavy boot vs. lightweight shoe issue where many people are actually brainwashed: they'll never try the light shoe so they'll never know if it works. This is harder to happen about hiking poles.

I disagree that poles become dead weight with an extremely light pack or no pack at all. If you are using the poles to propel you down the trail and maintain pacing, then it makes no difference the weight of the pack. They aid forward movement. However, if you are merely using the poles to lean against and support your weight, then maybe they become unnecessary with a super light pack. The biggest disadvantage for me of hiking poles is the fiddle factor and added complexity they add to my hiking style. It is nice to have hands free to take a picture, eat snacks, scramble, etc. with ease.

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{I didn't know that "good posture will prevent most all the endless problems people seem to have but there is near universal silence on the subject in the backpacking community."}

The most common reasons for using poles that I hear are back, knee, and foot problems. Good posture will prevent or alleviate all of of them. The body is designed to walk on two legs. Four legs need a tail to walk properly (sorry I couldnt resist).

I will admit that a heavy pack can overwhelm the body but we are talking about lightweight backpacking here.
I did find that my posture suffered by the use of poles but Im not necessarily making the case that poles cause bad posture, for me yes, for you? maybe not

It seems whenever anyone talks about weight on this site its all bad, drilling holes in your tarp, de hydrating water to save every gram. As far as shoes go only the lightest will do as we are constantly told we lift out feet thousands of times a day. Were also told we don’t need ankle support because if we needed it we would be born with it.
But when someone dares question the use of poles there is a flood of rebuttals, exemptions from weight calculations, and lightweight philosophy.
Well if we applied the same rational that is used to justify no ankle support,’ if we needed to use our hands when we walk, we would be on all fours’.
I know I have probably broken some BPL commandment “thought shall not criticise hiking sticks"
But oh well.
Darren

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Preventing Outdoor Falls

1. Heed all posted warning signs.
2. Stay on posted tracks and trails, and travel at a safe speed.
3. Wear properly fitted footwear appropriate for the situation.
4. Do not ingest alcohol or use mind-altering substances in situations of risk for falls. This includes prescription medications.
5. “Rope up” or otherwise connect yourself to a person or object intended to arrest a fall.
6. Avoid traveling in the dark if you will be in rocky or steep terrain. Always wear a headlamp or carry a lantern, torch, or flashlight.
7. Postpone travel during adverse weather conditions.
8. Rest when you are tired.
9. Condition yourself to improve balance. Keep your muscles strong, but maintain flexibility.
10. Wear appropriate vision correction.
11. Use a walking stick.
12. When handrails, or guide ropes or wires are available, hold onto them.
13. Do not ski recklessly.
14. Stay well hydrated.
15. Pay attention to what you are doing. When you take a picture, stop walking, take the photo, then begin to move again.
16. Do not overload your pack. This contributes to poor balance and fatigue.
17. Avoid walking on ice.

going in all fours is certainly much better for hiking but it comes at a price. We are what we are today thanks to freeing our hands from walking. Not a very good comparison.

I haven't felt there was any dogma towards pole use in this conversation. It was interesting discussion at times.

My 2 cents for the stew:

Pole weight: The lighter the better. You will not get forearm fatigue with the GG 2.4oz pole. You will get fatigue (under exact same conditions) with a 10oz pole. This is based on the safer method of strapless.

2 pole vs 1 pole: I get same energy results (not quite the phrase I’m looking for) with no pole as with 1 pole. 2 poles shows a drastic difference in that I can go farther.

Free hands: Needed for picture taking or whipping out the trail mix. However, stashing the poles under my armpits has become 2nd nature to me so that I may do these brief chores. Thus I do not see a handicap here.

Poles will:
1. Helps you to go farther (keeping all things equal). Now you can also use the upper body to propel you.
2. Eliminate hand swelling (100% if using strapless)
3. Help be faster and safer on scree
4. prevent falling over in the mild current river
5. clean the spiderwebs off the trail
6. eliminate carry CF pole for tent. There may a 0.5oz difference but other niceties more than make up for it such as a more robust tent/tarp pole.
7. reduce knee joint stresses
8. provide good assistance to the twisted ankle.

-Barry

A little clarification for you. It was never intended to attack people for using poles, in fact quite the opposite. I was merely commenting on the contradictions in the various argument points put forward on subjects in these forums. As a casual observer you see lots of information, fact or assumed fact being put across while discussing a point. When a topic is dear to the heart this information changes slightly to suit the point of argument and it is this that I have noticed in the great stick debate. It is probably just what people do.
So do what I do. Do what ever you like doing and don’t give a stuff what any one else thinks and enjoy.
Gotta go, I think there’s a BPL helicopter above my house..
Darren