Going up is hard, going down hurts

I said a bit about poles recently. I have gone over to Pacer Poles – they are really good. Don't be worried about the cost and weight, get them, you wont regret it.

http://www.titaniumgoat.com/poles.html
They show out of stock, but may just be waiting for materials. Send an email. You won't be disappointed if you wait. They help keep me from rolling an ankle (which I did on pavement last weekend), help to pull you up the ascent, help to brake on the descent, support for shallow stream crossings, even support for my tarp at the end of the day.
I've got nothing but great things to say about my AGPs. Kudos to TiGoat for their design, manufacturing and customer service.

Alpkit Carbonlites. I like mine, a lot. Collapsible, carbon fiber, relatively cheap and under a pound for the pair.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/2007_alpkit_carbonite_trekking_poles_review.html

Hi Christopher,
Have you considered the Titanium Gaot Adjustable Goat poles? They weigh 3.5 oz/each, collapse to 30", and are up to anything you are likely to use them for, unless you are a total madman. The only downside I can think of is price: $150/pair. The REI Peak Ultralites are also worth a look. They weigh ~11.5 oz/pair, collapse to 24", and are very sturdy. They cost $130/pair and come with the REI money back guarantee. Downside: the locking mechanisms can be a little tempermental, but this can usually be dealt with. If not, take em back to REI and get a refund.
Downhill problems just starting out? Try weight training to augment your hiking in building leg muscle strength, and consider keeping the hills relatively gentle until the training begins to show results. Muscle groups to work on are the quads, hamstrings, calf muscles, gluts, adductors, and abductors. Either free weights or Nautilus type machines will do the job. As you grow stronger and the discomfort diminishes, you can go for longer hikes with steeper hills, and start carrying successively more weight. One technique a lot of us use up here in the Pacific Northwest is to carry plastic bottles filled with water uphill, then dump it before descending to ease the strain on the knees. You will get plenty of opportunity later to carry weight downhill when you start backpacking. There is also a lot of literature available on training for mountain activities. Try the REI book section if you are near one of their stores, or even Barnes and Noble. Also a lot of info out on the Net. One last thought: On the off chance you have a biomechanical anomaly, you might have a sports medicine podiatrist(NOT one who mostly trims little old ladies' toenails) evaluate your gait. A lot of knee trouble can be eliminated by using a properly designed orthotic. Hope you get it sorted out soon and happy hiking!

Congrats on quiting smoking. I had some knee problems in the first couple hundred miles of my AT hike in 06 and I dont think I would have made it through the rough terrain of GA and NC without my trecking poles (I also used a neoprene knee brace on my right knee when necessary on my right knee and plenty of aleave).

I whole heartedly reccomend Leki poles (I use the Titanum ultralight makalus). They may not be the lightest poles on the market, but I put over 2400 miles on mine before having them refurbished at Trail Days in Damascus VA this year, Leki replaced the two lower sections of each pole free of charge. I never even had to change my tips.

I will also second Tom's suggestion of weight training. When the muscles surrounding a joing are not strong enough, stress is placed on the tendons and ligaments causing pain. strengthening the quadraceps and calves is the key to eliminating joint pain when hiking downhill. If you dont have access to a gym and dont have time to train on hiking trails, one program that has worked for me is to load up your back pack and head to the local highschool football stadium. Walk up and down the stadium stairs, moving from one end to the other and back (two stairs at a time) with your pack on. Every 5 rounds or so do 20 squats. Allow at least one day of rest between workouts. Start with a low pack weight and duration and work up to your max weight for 60-90 min.

I'll second Tom's recommendation on the REI Peak Ultralites. I've had my pair for over three years and have done much hiking and backpacking with them and they're still in fine shape. They're actually made by Komperdell I believe.

Knee braces help a lot of people (me included) with going down. They can be had at most any drug store and don't cost too much.

Hi Tom, I had to stop running due to knee problems and started hiking/backpacking seriously some years ago(about 4000 miles per year). I was lucky enough to find the Pacer Poles and I cannot say enough about them. The handles (no straps are required) is what makes the poles so good and help tremendously on down hills. It may sound funny but if you can follow the directions on how to use them (these poles are not like other trekking poles) I found that they will considerably improve your overall hiking speed as well as help your knees and hips. I was using them like other poles (which is "wrong") until I figured them out by accident. Good luck.

I've been using mine for two years now and really, really liked it.

I've also owned the REI Peak UL — two pairs in fact — and I had problems getting the sections to lock probably 3 out of 5 times.

I second what Tom said about exercising. Also, do a lot of local "practice" hikes — going up part way and coming down — without using hiking poles — and gradually increasing the distance. When you do long, multi-day hikes, then take your poles with you.

I have the women's Komperdell Carbon Duolocks, and I've got nothing but good to say about them. They extend to 50 inches (which is plenty for me) and weigh 6.25oz a piece with the wrist strap – which is not really "necessary" but I like it. Probably would be an ounce or two lighter without em tho.

If I choose to go the trekking pole route, I will likely choose the Pacer Poles. The REI Peak ULs look intriguing, but I have seen far too many people complain about the locking mechanism and the likelihood of failure seems high. The TiGoat sticks also seem interesting, but they are currently out of stock, and from my experience with them is that when something is out of stock, it might be so for months.

All that said, I'm extremely interested in hiking staffs as well. I really like the Luxury Lite Big Survival Stik, but the price is exorbitant if one chooses to not buy into the added functionality of the "Trail Defense System," or chooses to try and travel with the staff. In short, in order to not have the knife, one must buy an extra $67 piece in order to replace the original piece of a staff that already costs $199. Nearly $300 for a staff that I can travel with is too steep, even if the rest of the product seems ideal for my wants/needs. I could use a hack saw to alter the original design, but I'm one of those guys who are loathes to spend $200 on a product just to hack into it before the first use. I was also dismayed to find that since BPL reviewed the staff just 6 months ago, LL has raised its price by 60%, from $125 to $199. I know that occasionally prices must rise, but one that large seems inflated.

In light of this, does anyone have any experience with hiking staffs? I have seen a few, but they are made of aluminum (of which I am weary), and I haven't seen any reviews that I would call reputable.

> does anyone have any experience with hiking staffs?

I can recommend good lengths of 2" diameter Australian hardwood for some conditions where a light aluminium of carbon fibre trekking pole might be futile …

Have you considered looking at how your pack is distributing load?

I've found that a lot of difficulty with downhill travel is the fact that the pack is throwing me off-balance and so knees and feet are working quite hard on stabilisation.

I've moved over to a U/L framed pack and this has made a big difference.

For walks where I'm expecting rough downhill terrain I will sometimes take with me a single Ti trekking pole (217g) which tends to then replace a CF tent pole (86g)

Are you sure you are not dehydrated? I had problems with my knees when I started hiking. Bought 900 g/piece hiking boots, problems disappeared. Started drinking more/enough water, got rid of hiking boots, still no problems.

cw,

I went through that a few years back. Don't give up – things will get better.

Poles help. I have AGP (Ti Goat). Might be better to start with old ski poles or use sticks until you learn how or if you can use them. I started with Leki poles and was brutal on them. I forgot my AGP poles on one trip this summer, and hiked fined without them. Was nice to realize that I could live without them, but I do love my Goat poles.

I've found that when descending with sore knees, etc. that it helps to NOT slow down too much to avoid the pain. Use your leg muscles. Squat slightly. Once a few years ago, I pointed my foot to the side to take the stress off a really sore knee. I'm sure I looked like Quasimodo, but it worked.

Another thing that helps – if you are not under-weight, then try to shed a few pounds or more. This made a significant difference for me.

Of course, the obvious is a lighter back, but I'm assuming that is why you're here.

They haven't been mentioned (maybe because they aren't the lightest), but I really like the locking mechanism of the Black Diamond FlickLock poles. I've had a pair about two years now. Unlike the twist mechanism poles that always seem to end up working loose and shortening, the FlickLocks truly stay in place.

A friend of mine started thru hiking the AT last year with a popular brand of poles and ended up replacing them with Black Diamond FlickLocks after the other brand collapsed for the second time in a critical place, nearly causing a nasty injury.

I have looked at the BD poles, and they are on the short list (I forget exactly which pair) if I choose to go poles rather than staff. Pacer Poles, despite their weighing more than many poles, are on it too.

I've been using the same hickory alpenstock since about '80, and I'm sure it will still be around long after I'm gone. It weighs an even 16 oz and originally had a metal spike on the end. After trekking poles were in vogue, I noticed how they chewed up trail tread, which subsequently would wash away during a rain…accelerated erosion. I now have a rubber cane cap shoe gooed over the spike to prevent this, and it is for this reason that I don't approve of trekking poles.

I had gave up hiking with back and knees troubles.
I was able to start again a few years ago thanks to hiking pole.
But i am using some rubber cap on them too, it leaves less traces and makes less noise.

When people are trying to narrow their choices, I ask them how often they'll use a piece of gear 80% of the time (or just how they'll use it). Personally, trekking poles get in my way. I just want to hike. I do like them on tough downhills or traverses. But if I take them, they probably spend 80-90% of the time on my pack. So I quit carrying them.

There's also a bit of aesthetic; if you're trying to go clean and simple, trekking poles are two more waving, clunking things to deal with (IMHO).

I think that hiking staffs have a quite reasonable place. I have a dried 6'6" cedar staff that weighs about a pound or less, works great for (as in Roger's pic) clearing brush, and also works as a tarp pole. (I do have to say, this one doesn't get strapped to my pack.)

Reliability of a locking mechanism is important to me. If I'm ambling down a low-mid difficult trail, it doesn't really matter if they collapse a bit. The failures of twist-locks I've had have always, always been when I needed a reliable point of balance. When I'm doing a dicey downhill or stream crossing, I don't want to (and can't afford to) have a pole that might or might not hold. I've taken some nasty spills because of these. Quite a shocker when a pole collapses six inches! I also happen to prefer gear that doesn't require fussing. I just want my gear to work. So I avoid gear that requires disassembly, cleaning, roughing up, reassembly, and fidgeting for it to work mostly properly.

That said, there's a reason that, on the rare occasions I use trekking poles, I use FlickLocks. I'm seriously considering a one-piece setup, too, such as the BPL Stix.

My 1/2 cent.

I like Brads post, it reminds me that Scott Williamson doesn't use poles. Ray Jardine never used poles. (Both used thumbloops as blood will pool in dangling hands). However mine save my problematic knees on the up and down. If it were always level, I'd leave them at home.

Brad wrote: "I also happen to prefer gear that doesn't require fussing. I just want my gear to work. So I avoid gear that requires disassembly, cleaning, roughing up, reassembly, and fidgeting for it to work mostly properly."

As Brad pointed out, when the pole will not lock, there are actions that help. Adjusting and possibly roughing up the cams is part of the maintenance of these poles and if they need service, they will go on strike until they get it, but this is usually pretty quick and easy to do. I believe excessive problems in this area are caused by overtightening the pole in the first place.

My poles are the REI Peak UL Airshock badged Komperdells and I really appreciate the shock absorption on the downhill.

IMO, go to one of REI's free trekking pole classes or get a video that demonstrates proper pole technique. My Todd has developed crazy technique that is obviously expending excess energy.

I decided that a hiking staff fits my wants/needs more than poles (at least cognitively), so I went ahead and ordered one.

rather than spending what I think is far too much on the LuxuryLite Big Survival Stik (which seems a really nice piece of kit), I instead decided to take a risk on a product that has no reviews anywhere: the REI Carbon Bamboo Staff http://www.rei.com/product/765288

It's light (6.75 oz), and telescopes (the single feature that the LL lacks). I'm hoping that it isn't simply a modified trekking pole with a staff grip and strap (which the light weight leads me to think).

I don't live near an REI, so I had to simply buy one blind in the hopes that it's what I'm looking for. Hopefully it is. As soon as I get it, I'll be taking it for a test run on what I have decided is now my "Training Trail"; the Asbury Trails. It's a set of small trails that are very close buy and they have plenty of ups and downs. None are very long, but it's a nice spot, and not 10 minutes from my house. They also have some pretty good descents/ascents as well which should help me strengthen my legs/ligaments, as well as an ideal spot to learn how to use a staff before I get in the wilderness.