Advice on light, bugproof tent for 2-3 person use above treeline

How about the larger version of the Squall 2 – the tarptent Rainshadow ? A person who recommended it to me last year thought I could fit 2 adults + 2 kids and have room for gear below the kid's feet. I didn't ask about above treeline use, but I'd imagine the Rainshadow is at least 25% worse in the wind than your Cloudburst due to the increased size.

I'm not sure the Rainshadow would be a good choice in high winds. I'm actually not so sure about my Cloudburst either, but I already own one. I think the Tarptent design is too drafty. I don't think the kids will like that (Even in the middle of the summer we often have temperatures below freezing.). I'v been thinking of modifying it by adding full windprotection at the rear that could be deployed in bad weather.
If I could ignore the wind issues the Rainshadow would probably be an excellent choice since it is both light, reasonably roomy and has good bugprotection.

This is a tricky one for getting lightweight, and I have given a fair bit of thought to this as well with no real 'winner' solutions. I have a 2 and 3 year old and also prefer camping above treeline here in the Pacific Northwest.

I own a Hex 3 and will say that my family is already getting cramped in it. I am 6'2", and we like to put our boys between us (keeps them warmer and prevents them from wiggling around too much). It gives the middle of the tent to my boys, so they can use the area to stand up, but it means my head and feet get crammed into the netting corners.

I also think that, at their age, your family (especially your spouse) might feel comfortable in a single, large shelter. As they get older they will probably want their own tent, but that is down the road a bit.

I have decided on, though have not purchased, the GoLite Shangri-La 4 as my family tent. It's big enough for 4 adults plus gear at the head or foot area, with room to spare as play space (my boys wiggle around so much in tents). The square shape may not be quite as stable, but it adds the needed head and foot space for the adults, and is a good foot taller. My trick will be to sew my own mosquito netting and floor to save weight and cost. This will be considerably easier with the Shangri-La 4 versus the Shangri-La 3. I intend to include vertical netting over the opening so we can leave the door open, which is a more difficult pattern with the Hex shape. The other 3 sides will just have perimeter netting.

If you were willing to sew this netting in with nanoseeum netting and 1.3oz silnylon from thru-hiker.com, I think you would have a very wind resistant fully enclosed shelter for less weight than any 2-tent combos or double-wall shelters. I don't think you can find a lighter wind-stable solution than that. If you do, please let me know! =)

Thanks for the good advice John! You are probably right that this is the lightest solution. It is also quite stylish since it will mimic the traditional Saami teepee. Do you have any particular reason to choose the Golite before the Black Diamond Mega Light?

Gustav, when will you be buying the tent? Next spring MSR is putting out their Skinny Too tunnel tent that might be just what you a looking for. Here is a video of the Skinny Too being introduced. It looks like something that might do what you want.

Also check out the MLD Silnylon Mid. It's 1.5 lbs and $275 with 80 sq/ft of usable floor space. You can add perimeter bug netting for an extra 5.5 oz and $45. The price is a little steep but its lighter than the Mega Light and all the MLD stuff is very high quality.

Anyone know of the weight on the skinny tents ?

Gustav,

There are several reason I would choose the Shangri-La 4 over the Mega Light:

1) The Mega Light only has 8 tieouts, or 3 per side; the Shangri-La 4 has 15 or 16 tieouts, or 5 per side, so you can secure it better in high wind.

2) The Shangri-La 4 has adjustable guyline straps, which go a long way towards achieving a taut pitch, as well as pitching it close to the ground. The fixed guylines of the Mega Light means re-staking wherever more tension is needed.

3) There are conflicting dimensions online, but from what I gather the Shangri-La 4 is considerably larger. Mega Light is 86"L x 86"W x 57"H (50.7 sq ft), the Shangri-La 4 is 114"L x 114"W x 73"H (90 sq ft). It can fit 5 adults. I could be wrong on these dimensions, though.

4) The Shangri-La 4 is made of 1.76oz silnylon, the Mega Light uses 1.35. I feel that in tents this large the thicker fabric is a wise choice. 1.76oz silnylon does not stretch nearly as bad as 1.35oz, and has more than double the tear strength. It will also better protect from any flying debris or falling branches.

5) I'm not positive, but I believe the Mega Light only has one high vent. The Shangri-La 4 has 2.

6) The color patterns of the Mega Light only reinforce the appearance of a circus tent.

Personally I feel these points justify the slightly heavier weight (a few ounces) of the Shangri-La 4.

Hope this helps!

Anyone know of the weight on the skinny tents ?

MSR Skinny One and Too Specifications

The Skinny One is 1.33 kg and the Skinny Too is 1.6 kg

I looked at those specs and diagrams of the "Skinny Too"

I'd say if two people are going to fit in there, they would certainly have to be skinny, too! :-)

They would have to coordinate their breathing. At 44" wide, they couldn't both inhale at the same time!

Those old sierra designs clip flashlights are pretty good for the money. Or even the lightyear for a snug fit with a small child.

Miguel,

I will buy the tent in september this year when I go to New York. Looking at the specs for width the Skinny is probably to small. If it would have been only for the kids that could have been OK, but now I want a tent that should also be used by myself and my wife alone (She slept in a tent for the first time in her life this summer. I now have a hope that she will accompany me on some of my adventures next year.).

Looked at the video. The wind curtain certainly is a very interesting idea. I should try it out on my Cloudburst. If I could make one also for a Rainshadow it could also be a good idea, but I'm still worried about the windstability. I guess the Rainshadow will flex more in the wind because it uses trekking poles instead of arches.

nm

The Clip Flashlight certainly looks light and very cheap, but it has this North American separate fly system that I really dislike. I had a MEC Merganser tent that I gave away because I didn't like that system (It was impossible sell here.). You will find almost no tents in Scandinavia with that design, and that is for good reasons. It is extremely rare that we put up a tent without the fly. Often we are forced to put the tent up when the wind is blowing and it is raining. It is tricky to put on the fly under these conditions and the chance that the fly will blow away and/or the inner tent will get wet is high. Unless you are hiking in a very warm environment I really cannot see the usefulness of this system.

Gustav,

We use the BD Megalight, and before this the Megamid. We started when the kids were 0 and 2 and they are now 7 and 9. We also purchased the floor and I sewed my own nest, but this was before the BD nest was available.

The floor IS heavy, but it's also VERY durable, not just in the long term, but also DURING a trip, when kids can be less careful than adults. This may become important on day 4 of constant rain.

Just a few things to counter John's claims. (No offense, and I have to say that the Shangri-La looks like a superb option.) In fact if I was purchasing, it may be my choice too today.

The Megalite is actually 96" X 96". I've also seen the measurements that John quotes on someone's site, but I think they refer to liveable space, ie a foot in from each edge. It's still smaller than the Golite though.

Yes, there is only one vent, but this has never been a problem.

I'm dubious about the thicker silnylon protecting from flying debris, but if it stretches less, this would be good.

The BD does have fixed loops, but if you untie these, loop them through the webbing three times and retie them, you have four instant lengths, depending on how many loops you peg through. The 8 extra loops would be reassuring, but I wonder how effective they are on a straight (not catenary) cut edge. John, can you report back on this?

Essentially the GoLite sounds like a bigger, heavier version of the BD. And I have to say the BD is a superb family setup. It's also fantastic for 1, 2, or 3 adults. Either of these tents will become immensely more versatile with an 8X10 silnylon tarp or 7X11 poncho out the front as an awning.

Good luck with it, and I look forward to a report and photos from both of you.

Aloha Gustav,
You mention this most important factor (I have two small kids aged 1 and 3 )no way would I try to have two or even one small child stuck with me in rainy weather in a small Cloudburst or Rainshadow …sorry none of Henry's tents for any length of time. First children need to stand up and move around freely, so I would go with the Golite or the BD Megalite.
I just had our's the Megalite out in a storm that moved through the islands early this August…it endured my hubby…who is like an elephant in a china shoppe in a tent.
It also held up fine with our granddaughters…most important they could stand up and dance around :)
Which ever you choose, I think it is wonderful introducing your young ones to camping early….have fun!

Another thing to consider is that BD has been making these Mega Light for over 15 years. My friend has one from when they just started making them and it still looks brand new.

Oh yeah… The BD has a sling at the apex of the tent so that if you use trekking poles to set it up, the pointy end of the pole doesn't poke and wear down that very valuable corner! The GoLite doesn't; it is just slightly thicker fabric up there – I don't think it is as durable.

Hi Gustav whilst not exactly a family tent my wife and I have used the Black Diamond Beta Light in Denmark, Sweden and Norway and we are very happy with it. The Bug liner ensures the bugs are kept at bay and we have found that no matter what the weather (and wind speed) it is a stable and dry environment. As a result we would strongly recommend the Mega Light as a family tent. By the way we have used an Integral Designs Siltarp II as a fly for the front of the tent, though 2 Sil Ponchos would also work.

I'm always amazed at how much, and how fast, valuable advice I get from the BPL forums.
It is also comforting to hear that the BD Beta Mid has been used in Scandinavia.
Just to share some of my experience, most of my trips with the children will probably still be daytrips. I still find I have a lot of use for lightweight gear on those trips. Since UL tents are so light I have no trouble bringing the tents with me wherever I go. This way we don't need to go home when it starts to rain or the children need to sleep. This removes a lot of the stress when hiking with the family. With small children I found a new use for the Gatewood. It became a sleeping shelter for the kids.

So what did you decide to get?

Thanks for the nice picture Rod!

That tarp looks like a pretty nice setup. Especially in our rainy environment. It's nice to be able to cook outside protected from the rain. Maybe I could use my Gatewood for this, but it might be too small.

To me it seems that both the Mega Light and the Shangri-La 4 are both good options, with just slight differences. I'm still hesitant about some things however:
1. Will a bugcurtain along the edge work? Should I buy the nest? It is a bit expensive I think (Both Golite and BD). I guess the nest will be warmer as well(That is a good thing most of the time for us.).
2. Is it possible to stake the shelter close to the ground? I prefer moderate condensation before draft.
3. Can I buy just a floor for the Mega Light or the MLD shelter? On the Backcountrygear site they only have a floor for the Mega Mid, but maybe this will fit. I guess a bug curtain could be easily added to a bathtub-floor although I'm not sure exactly how. How do you deal with the door for example? Should I make it detachable with a zip or velcro? Or maybe leave it permanently on the fly like on the SMD Wild Oasis.
4. Can the windstability be compared to that of a low tunnel-tent? Will it take 40mph? What about flapping?
5. I'm pretty tall, 6'4", will I fit?

Not choosing the Hilleberg is a still somewhat of a step for me. Sometimes I'm thinking I should take advantage of the lower price I get in the US and buy something expensive.

I'm 6'7" and my Hex 3/shangri La 3 is plenty big enough for me and my lady. You could probably fit the kids in too and just take the one tent, but maybe the 4 is more realistic for that.

I don't have the nest, but I'm considering putting a noseeum skirt round it with a door panel. It's very wind stable up to 60mph providing the pegging is firm. The standard floor is heavy and will collect rain when the door is opened. I'm making a 5 sided tray groundsheet out of tyvek for winter use.

>>Thanks for the nice picture Rod!
You're welcome Gustav.

>>That tarp looks like a pretty nice setup. Especially in our rainy environment. It's nice to be able to cook outside protected from the rain. Maybe I could use my Gatewood for this, but it might be too small.

I think you need at least 180cm wide, and maybe 270 cm long to prevent rain coming into the floor of the shelter.

>>To me it seems that both the Mega Light and the Shangri-La 4 are both good options, with just slight differences. I'm still hesitant about some things however:
1. Will a bugcurtain along the edge work? Should I buy the nest? It is a bit expensive I think (Both Golite and BD). I guess the nest will be warmer as well(That is a good thing most of the time for us.).

The Nest will not keep it warmer!! It would be VERY possible to sew your own nest with 1.1 NON-SILNYLON (ie plain nylon) or even 0.9 nylon which would turn it into a true double wall tent. This would only be maybe 200g heavier than a noseeum nest.

>>2. Is it possible to stake the shelter close to the ground? I prefer moderate condensation before draft.

You can stake directly through the nylon loops to keep it close to the ground. You will lose some floor space, but not a lot.

>>3. Can I buy just a floor for the Mega Light or the MLD shelter? On the Backcountrygear site they only have a floor for the Mega Mid, but maybe this will fit.

The MegaLight is the same as the Megamid, but with lighter fabric. They use the same floor and nest.

>>I guess a bug curtain could be easily added to a bathtub-floor although I'm not sure exactly how. How do you deal with the door for example? Should I make it detachable with a zip or velcro? Or maybe leave it permanently on the fly like on the SMD Wild Oasis.

If it's permanantly on, you sew around three sides of the perimeter. On the door side you sew in a full size triangle of mesh, attached to the floor and the corner seams to the roof. Add a zip in the middle.
Using a full perimeter of velcro or a zip will probably weigh very similar to a full nest.
Using a full nest makes it slightly heavier, but MUCH more versatile. If the bugs are bad, we sometimes pitch the nest at lunchtime, for a relaxing, bugfree break.

>>4. Can the windstability be compared to that of a low tunnel-tent? Will it take 40mph? What about flapping?

I've had the Megamid to about 85km/h and the Megalight to about 60km/h winds. They both flapped a bit (the megalight was worse) but never looked like failing. A Macpac tunnel broke two poles in the 65km/h wind, but it was pitched side on. For the 85 km/h winds we could hear the gusts funneling up the valley and then thumping into the tent. The kids slept through it.

>>5. I'm pretty tall, 6'4", will I fit?

I'm not certain. I think so, but I'm only 175cm. I have a heap of space though. The ShangriLa is better.

>>Not choosing the Hilleberg is a still somewhat of a step for me. Sometimes I'm thinking I should take advantage of the lower price I get in the US and buy something expensive.

This was the same for me. Even after I bought it, it took a while to get comfortable with using it. I have a Macpac Minaret and a Salewa Sierra Leone, and I can't remember the last time I used them. I shared a friends Macpac Olympus about 6 months ago and hated it. It was so cramped. I take the Megalight, even when travelling alone.