Himalaya backpacking gearlist

Hi,

>Have coleman canyon 32 for south india treks.
Where exactly do you plan to hike? A 32F bag will be too warm for most places even in winter. Most of the time in sahyadris all I need is a cotton sheet. YMMV ofcourse.
Instead you could carry your down jacket if you expect such temp.

>I) PVC rain suit for really hard downpours in south india
If it is monsoon I like to get wet. I dont know for sure if some parts of south India get winter rain. I probably would carry rain gear for that.

What about colder rain in himalayas? you will want some breathable raingear.

>stove
why not use a wood stove? you wouldnt need to carry fuel.

>What do you guys think ?
Do i need the rei titaniums pots ,pants,BPL spork etc

only you can answer that. It is not about need. Do you really want to shave a few ounces?

If you plan to get Ti pots get BPL SUL ones. They use a thinner Ti and are much lighter then anything else I know of.

Huzefa,
Here are my answers.
>]
_
Where exactly do you plan to hike? A 32F bag will be too warm for most places even in winter. Most of the time in sahyadris all I need is a cotton sheet. YMMV ofcourse.
Instead you could carry your down jacket if you expect such temp.

my answer:
It's a lightweight synthetic bag that's more like 50 F bag.Highest altitudes in western ghats are in karnataka and tamilnadu where i intend to do most of my hiking.
Please refer to the wiki for peak information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Ghats
It is not uncommon to see frost in elevations in mid winter out there.

Down jacket would be excessive.Down vest IMO is sufficient. Time will tell of course if I need more.

>I) PVC rain suit for really hard downpours in south india
If it is monsoon I like to get wet. I dont know for sure if some parts of south India get winter rain. I probably would carry rain gear for that.
What about colder rain in himalayas? you will want some breathable raingear.

my answer:
PVC rainsuit is cheap and I can use it when I'm stopped and it is raining hard. Also plan to do some fly fishing in the rivers in south and himalayas for trout and mahseer.Perfect lightweight waterproof gear when not moving much IMO. It is ok to get wet on a two day hike. Not acceptable for a week long hike ;)
If you look at my list I did mention that I have goretex pro shell and ski bibs. I also have a pair of surplus ecws goretex pants.

>stove
why not use a wood stove? you wouldnt need to carry fuel.
my answer:
Well…wood fires are severaly discourages in all wilderness areas in India.
Also Indian alpine areas have very little biomass.It is really meant for people living in that region.The only place s you can use the wod stove in India is in forest areas. As I've stated before, If you read any of the directives of state forest tourism department/s, you will notice they prohibit any wood fires.
So I believe my solution is the best one for Indian conditions. This topic has been talked about a lot on the Indiamike forum. As you're a member there, you can check those threads out.

>Do i need the rei titaniums pots ,pants,BPL spork etc
only you can answer that. It is not about need. Do you really want to shave a few ounces?
my answer:
I'm not sure what you mean by this comment. I plan to make sensible lightweight choices where ever I can. I also would err a little bit on the durable side because of the difficulty and time taken to source quality gear from India.

So I was looking for a more reasoned answer. But thanks for your comments and keep them coming ! :)

Hi Raj,

My opinion is that titanium for small (<1L) pots doesn't really buy you much and I prefer aluminum for the cost savings. Stainless will be fairly heavy, so I wouldn't recommend it.

The downside of aluminum vs. Ti is a slight decrease in durability for the weight. But this really only means that it can be dented. Still a dented pot will boil water without a problem. The biggest weight difference between aluminum and ti is usually in the lid. This can be overcome by replacing the lid with a piece of aluminum foil.

So I would suggest finding the cheapest pot in the market and it will probably also be the lightest.

I do love my titanium spork. It just is so fun to say thw words and is a good conversation piece. But a good quality plastic spoon is about the same weight or lighter. Having a spork shipped from the US to India seems pretty silly.

That's my opinion for what it's worth.

Nia,
Thanks for your comments. I'm not in India yet.I have a ways to go for that. I'm not too sure I would like to use aluminum for my cooking vessels. There's some circumstantial scientific evidence connecting high concentrations of aluminum to alzheimer's.
Of course it's hard to prove these things as it would have to be done in isolation and that's not possible in our modern world with our dependence on so many metals.
I think steel is fairly benign. Not sure where titanium stands in all this.

>It's a lightweight synthetic bag that's more like 50 F bag. Highest altitudes in western ghats are in karnataka and tamilnadu where Ii intend to do most of my hiking.

That explains. 50F should be fine.

>Well…wood fires are severaly discourages in all wilderness areas in India.
Also Indian alpine areas have very little biomass.It is really meant for people living in that region.

I think I found the Indiamike thread you are referring to.

I dont buy that argument. It isnt like you have to cut down a tree to boil some water. All you need is some deadwood or fallen twigs /branches. Actually a gassifier wood stove burns very cleanly and efficiently.

Actual cooking takes a long time and is a different scenario. Get a food dehydrator.

>As I've stated before, If you read any of the directives of state forest tourism department/s, you will notice they prohibit any wood fires.

Actually I havent. Where did you read these directives? I understand that in some national parks burning wood may be explicitly prohibited but otherwise I dont consider it ethically wrong.

This is just my opinion.

>I'm not sure what you mean by this comment.

The primary reason most people here use titanium pots is to shave ounces. Steel pots will be very heavy compared to ti. The downside of Ti is that it is very expensive. Many campers in India carry these heavy steel pots and are happy with it. So when you ask if you 'need' Ti pots, I think only you can answer that. If you dont mind the expense, I say get them.

Lightest Ti pots: BPL SUL ones. Then use a thinner Ti and are lighter then anything I know of.

Hopefully more experienced members will chime in.

Huzefa,
Here are some links:
http://www.corbettnationalpark.in/page_visit_ctr.htm
This one says they may have firewood to burn in camp areas but you will have to book. Methinks this will be a hassle that can be avoided.
http://www.karnatakawildernesstourism.org/Trekking_opp_in/Gen_guidelines.htm

It would be great if you try out some of things you were talking about like a wood stove in some national parks and report back your findings.

About the pots and pans, I wanted some advice from people who have used heavier stuff and then gone light. It would be nice to hear their views on this subject.

Thanks again for your comments.

I think aluminum has largely been cleared of any implication with Alzheimer's. I recall this from reports in the press I read some time ago about some studies that were done so take my first sentence for what it's worth. The exposure to aluminum would be very low for me given the relatively small amount of cooking I do in it and I'm usually just boiling water. Titanium is used in artificial joints partly because it is so inert. My sister's hip is titanium. So I would worry less about titanium than aluminum or even stainless steel. Having said that, I think Nia's advice on aluminum pots is great. I happen to prefer titanium pots because I really like titanium. I made my own titanium potty trowel. I use aluminum and even stainless steel pots but now favor my FireLite SUL-1100 Titanium Cookpot. It is one of my most prized pieces of gear. Given the light weight and functionality of aluminum and titanium I could recommend either for a cook pot. Aluminum conducts heat a little better. Titanium is very durable. Their weights are very similar.

Eric,
That was a nice summary of your experiences with pots made of different metals. While I don't plan to cook any gourmet meals, Indian cuisine has a certain amount of work involved. Indian retailers have very minimal east asian or western food ingredients. Noodles and maybe some generic pasta is cutting edge in India as far as I know. :)

I will dehydrate my veggies and use beans(pulses) and rice for the most part.Unless I get really good with my soon to be purchased daiwa mini system or an unlucky goat wanders by any of the alpine trails. grin.

With that said , I think titanium is a good choice.

I have two choices in mind for cooking sets. Reason for a set is that I would be going in groups.
http://www.antigravitygear.com/proddetail.php?prod=ECA405&cat=99
or
http://www.rei.com/product/764178
I have read somewhere on bpl forums that rei ti ware = evernew. but the non stick coating color seems to be black for the REI ones where as the picture for the evernew ones do not show any color.Not sure of any durability difference.
I am thinking of purchasing a single wall ti cup, sierra bowl and the msr ti knife and fork set. I don't want to eat from my pots because I want to preserve it's non stick coating.

This my interest you:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/13180/index.html?skip_to_post=96794#96794

Huzefa,
Outstanding ! I thought I had gone through the entire gspot list of topics. Just shows this forum's depth of knowledge. What I like about the Ti cook set system is the lids double as
frying pans.And everything stacks up perfectly. They have handles too !
Decision time looms ….

>I have two choices in mind for cooking sets. Reason for a set is that I would be going in groups.

Do you plan to carry cookware for your whole group? I dont see why you have to. What will you do if the group size is more then four?

AntiGravityGear 2 Qt. Aluminum Non-Stick Cook Pot
http://www.antigravitygear.com/proddetail.php?prod=MK2QNS

Its worth a look. 1.9L, 165gm (5.9 oz) w/ lid – much lighter then Ti pots of same volume. Best part is that it costs just $13!

Huzefa,
I plant o go with alteast two friends. One guide would be present or in national parks, one forest guide would be part of the group.
So that makes it 4 !
If more than that, they are on their own. Here are some links.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/iyh-vsv/prod/cook-cuisinier-eng.php
http://www.eartheasy.com/article_healthy_cookware.htm

They clearly say that cooking for long periods and cooking acidic food will cause more aluminum to leach into the food being cooked than the usual amount.

South Indian food uses a lot of tomato,lime and tamarind. They are very acidic. Also hgher altitude cooking involves cooking for longer periods of time because of lower boiling point. So I want to stick to titanium as it is inert and nothing will enter the food from the pot.

I know it is expensive but I am not comfortable using aluminum.

After reading your two links, I see hard anodized pot wouldnt be a problem.

check this out:
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___82091

I believe this is the same pot as the antigravitygear, albeit a HA type. It a really good deal!

Huzefa,
It seems that it's the same as HA. I'm sold on this HA aluminum pot set. I love the handle on this one. I was not looking forward to the rubberized handle on the titanium pots. Too easy to damage it.
Thank you Huzefa ! :)
Thinking of getting these to finish up:
bowl/plate
http://www.antigravitygear.com/proddetail.php?prod=EBY155&cat=99
mug
http://www.antigravitygear.com/proddetail.php?prod=EBY155&cat=99
fork and spoon set:
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___65126

Comments or criticism are welcome !

Hi Raj,

I've always been a little skeptical of the alu-alzheimer's link. However I don't use deoderant that contains aluminum.

Doesn't really matter though. If you prefer titanium and can afford it there is no reason why aluminum is better for you.

I recommend against the non-stick. I had an older evernew non-stick frying pan. My food stuck on the first try. It was impossible to clean with out heavy abrasives which damage the coating. I returned the pan to REI.

The best way to reduce weight is to eliminate unneeded items. Do you really need 2 frying pans and 2 pots for 4 people? It depends on how you cook. If you are rehydrating prepared meals as you suggest above, you could probably get a way with one large pot for all of you.

Consider what you will cook and see how much can be done in serial using the same pot rather than requiring an additional one.

I would consider 14 oz in pots for the REI set as heavy by light weight standards even for 4 people.

As an example, for solo I use a 2.5 oz HA aluminum pot for boiling water, cooking gravies, etc. and a .5 oz stainless steel mesh screen for cooking fish and reheating tortillas/chapatis and a .5 oz silicone muffin cup for baking and as a pot holder.

Of course the most important thing is figuring out what works for you. And that takes trial and error.

Nia,
I absolutely agree with you. I wish I had spare cash lying around to be able to afford titanium stuff.
The HA alum set that huzefa talked about in the campmor link is 11 oz and I don't have to carry both the pots at all times.
Just one will do for most 2-3 ppl treks.
I think frypan is really not needed. I can more than make do the with two pot combo.
I want to get a single wall mug and bowl with a spoon/fork combo to complete this portion of gear.

Raj,

Those pots look fantastic, especially for the cooking you're doing.

A couple of points:

I wouldn't try to cook in a titanium pot. They're really thin to save weight, and don't conduct heat very well. This is fine to boil water, but a pain to try to fry or even boil rice etc with. Food will burn quickly and stick to the pan, whether it's non-stick or not.

Uncoated aluminium is not an option for the cooking you are talking about. Forget about Alzheimers, you'll starve to death first. There's nothing like the taste of a tomato based sauce cooked in an uncoated aluminium pot (as opposed to just reheated, which isn't TOO bad). The only thing that could taste worse, is adding lime to it!!

HA aluminium is your friend. Heat dispersion benefits of aluminium, with the inert surface of ti.

I'm inclined to think that they are being a bit optimistic on the weight, but I wouldn't worry too much. I think your best options are HA aluminium followed stainless or Trangia Duosal, followed by nonstick aluminium. Find the best compromise of cost and weight in these.

Rod

Nia, which pot are you using? What size and cost is it? I love the idea of the silicone muffin pan as a pot holder!!

Rod

Hi Nia,
I've had my eye on the steel mesh with a wood holder on one end as a very useful lightweight device. I can have it made to my specs in India.
I didn't give your silicone muffin pan a second thought till I saw rod's comments about it. It's ingenious. How's the durability when you use it like that ?

Rod,
Thanks for chiming in with that warming about AL reactivity. I will look around. I will talk to the campmor people about the weight on the HA AL pot combo.

Rod, I’m using the AGG 3-cup hard anodized pot. I think I paid $12. Unfortunately it looks like AGG has dropped this pot. Is the same one in the set that Huzefa linked above.

Yeah I saw the muffin pan as pot holder mentioned on whiteblaze. It works quite well. Although I have also just put a strip of silicone tape around the pot for my last trip which worked as well. The strip needed weighs < 5g. I still take the muffin pan when I want to bake.

Raj, I’ve had no durability problems with any silicone baking stuff. The only thing that can damage it is a sharp knife. Actually a bear could probably do some damage as well :)

Glad I could help!

p.s. I am sending you a PM. check your inbox.

You have posted the same link for the bowl and mug. You plan to use you Sierra Cup as both?

At 2.4oz for 300ml it gets heavy. See BPL trapper mug: 1.3oz for 475ml.
The lightest option for a bowl/mug I am aware of is cutting the top of a Platybottle. cheaper too!

1.4 oz for SP Ti spoon and fork is heavy too. Check out BPL Titanium Spork:0.4oz. BPL SUL Ti spork is little lighter but I like shiny spork for it its possible use as a mirror.

Top 10 Reasons to Carry a Spork
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/top_10_reasons_to_carry_a_spork.html

Huzefa,
You're right. Anyways forget it. I just bought the nallo2gt and pair of OR croc gaiters. I got the snowpeak 600 ml ti cup , various hilleberg stakes (viper AL wide and 7.5 inch pro pegs (sets of 4 as recommended by petra as sufficient)),25 metre 3mm guy line,SD down booties,msr titan fork and spoon for FREE !
That's right. Unbelievable. Thank you Moontrail ! Can't wait to see my tent.

Edit: I paid for the snow and sand pegs.