Montbell UL SS bag question

For me, I would feel uncomfortable relying on my bag and jacket together to provide me with just enough warmth for my anticipated temp. If I expect temp to fall to 28F, then I would get a bag good enough for 28F — and my jacket will serve as "insurance".

Rather than feeling cold all night and exhausted the next day because temps fell and I had no built-in buffer — I'd rather carry "the right bag" and chuck the camp chair (or something else) if I need to save weight. YMMV, of course.

Ben,

I understand your position, however, I have determined to look at this differently. The typical night time ranges will be 45F to 60F. +/- 10F (35F – 70F) will cover virtually all conditions for when I bring this bag; 28F will be the extreme and rare limit.

So I would like to keep this question open for users of this bag. Will the 40F bag dress down to 28F with a light insulated jacket (or a thin wool crew shirt + wool sweater)? For point of reference, I never pack a winter type insulated jacket so would not look to one as a fallback. I sleep neither warm nor cold. If the forecast calls for temps below freezing I would bring another bag. So I really am looking to the extreme range.

The reason I ask is that my local dealer feels that the 40F wears significantly cooler than the 35F. I am just trying to not over-insulate for the warmer ranges; the extra insulation will almost always be wasted.

I appreciate all insights.

Paul

Whatever you do, if your 5'10" or taller you'll need the long in the Montbells.

As far as temp ratings on average people will feel cool at their rating but not feezing to death. If you sleep warm or cold let that guide you as well.

I'm usually ok supplimenting my bag's warmth with clothing but you have to be realistic about how much warmth you can pack with standard clothing. Things like insulated pants (not just long johns) do add a lot of warmth. At least with the SS series you can wear a LOT of clothing inside that bag without compressing the down. The trade off of course is that the SS system weights about 11 oz more than the standard bag.

If 28 degrees is the rarity then sure, the 40 might cover you as long as you are pairing it with adequate other sleep insulation.

I just bought one of these bags before my last trip. I had only 1 night that approached the 40º range, probably 44º at the least. I did not have to use my hood and supposed I could have gone down a bit lower. I had on a long sleeve shirt and a synthetic vest ( I was too lazy to take them off before going to bed). I was warm but I got the feeling I would not have been happy in the bag if it had been much lower than the 40º rating. It is a comfortable bag though.

That said, I don't think I would take the bag much lower than the 40º rating unless I had some extra loft. I feel more comfortable going below a given temp. rating in my Western Mountaineering bag. They seem to be rated higher than the MontBell's.

Scott

I own the UL SS #2. I'm a warm sleeper. The lowest I've has this bag was 28 degrees. With a fleece hoodie & pants I was too warm. I had to unzip the bag a bit. I would like to get another one that's even lighter, but for now I'll just unzip it and use it like a quilt when it's warm.

Paul:

As subjective as it gets, I view myself as an "average" sleeper — neither sleeping overly warm or cold. I find MontBell bags to be spot on. I own a No. 3 (30F) and always sleep with silk top and longjohn and I find the bag just right for that temperature — I start to feel a bit cool (not cold, but cool) at times when temperatures dipped to the high 20's.

With the additional info — if you too are an average sleeper and temps are expected to go down generally to 45 and maybe to 35 and only in rare circumstances to 28 — then I'd go for the 35F bag — or MontBell's No. 4. The jacket will serve as insurance in case temps dip below 35. Note that a difference of 10F can be quite a bit — and while your jacket can help keep your upper half from getting cold, you probably aren't bringing insulated long pants for your lower half. Food for thought. Again, YMMV.

Ben, Joe, Scott and Patrick,

There is another poster asking for newbie info for a trip and he applauded the wealth of info at this site. I would agree and add that the utility of the info is something to be appreciated as well.

Based on your comments I am now sure the #4 (35F) bag is the right choice. I will add the extra 3 oz and go with the #4. At 5' 11.5" I am resigned to the long as well.

I have found I can have a fantastic time while enduring bugs, heat, torrential rain, wind, lightning and crappy cold food if need be. However, I'm less enthusiastic without a good night's sleep. For me that will mean the Montbell coupled with the BA AirCore.

Thanks for your help.

Paul

I have the #3. I'm a warm sleeper. I've had my #3 down to -10 C (14 F for you Americans) with thick wool socks, silk weigh long johns, thin base layer top, fleece top and fleece hat with the hood cinched all the way up (just my nose sticking out)… toasty warm! I love this bag.

I have the #3 as well and have been in about 30 degree temps inside a tent.

I wore only socks, thin long johns and thin long sleeve shirt.

Cinched up the hood somewhat, but still plenty of room left.

Was warm all night no problem, but I am a somewhat warm sleeper.

I felt I could take this bag at least 10 degrees lower with my insulated jacket, tighter hood and more clothes.

Rating felt right on for me.

Paul, I have the UL SS #5 (40F) and have successfully slept in it while winter camping on snow with temps in the upper 20s. In order to do so I wore silk longjohns and a MB down inner jacket over a Smartwool longsleeve zip T-neck. On one occassion I did feel cold, but it was seeping up from the snow, not from the top, so I stuffed my pack under my legs and problem solved.

Looking at an old (03) MB catalog I find that these more thorough specs are given. Usable temperature rating: 35.5 to 52F. Temperature limit: 15.8F. To be honest, I would be skeptical of using the bag down to 15; from my experience, the 20s is about the limit. BTW, I'm 5'11" and this bag works just fine for me…at the time I got it MB didn't yet make a long version.

I'm a little confused by Joe's comment that "the SS system weights about 11 oz more than the standard bag." The UL SS line-up is MB's lightest; for instance my #5 weighs 1 lb 2 oz. Pretty light I'd say.

One last question, this one for Benjamin, and forgive me for being such a luddite. What the heck does YMMV mean?Thanks in advance.

Howdy Monty:

YMMV — your mileage may vary.

Ha Ha, Sleeping is such an individual thing, temp wise. I bought the SS #3 long, (couldn't fit in the regular, no way, and I am 6' even), and test slept in my garage when the temp was right at 30. With normal Thermarest and light base layer including hat, and obviously no wind, I got cold and didn't want the bag. And yet Mike and David above love it and had no issues. I went back and traded for a #2 ss only rated 5 degrees lower. But this bag is really warm and not the same animal at all as the #3 IMO. Slept in it on nights that got to around 20 with same base layers, toasty warm. I use it as a quilt most nights. Love it. Off topic, but YMMV no doubt.

Paul W:
I don't think you'd go wrong with the Montbell. I use an Alpine #1 (same as the SS #1) and have slept in it with temps down to 8 deg. (it's has a 15 deg. rating) and found it to be quite warm with only a long sleeve base layer and wool watch cap. I think you're doing the right thing by going with the #4. It should cover all of your needs.
Jim

Paul W:

Reading Paul B's post reminds me of past posts complaining about "thin spots" found in some MontBell bags — so something you should watch out for — if or when you buy.

My MontBell is first rate in quality — and many have written the same about theirs. However, more than a few have also written about their bags having areas that were so thin as to be almost devoid of down! Quality problems. So make sure to examine your bag.

Reading Paul Buzzard's post — a 5 degree difference shouldn't be a huge one — and it made me suspicious that his first bag was actually defective.

I purchased a SS #3 for my wife, as it was on sale and the stretch baffles would work well for a woman. I noticed right away that one of the box baffles at the chest height (3 across the chest, about 6×6 inches if I recall) was totally empty. Well, it had air in it. Sent it back. Went with a WM Highlite instead. Im sure Western's quality control is much higher as Ive never heard of such a complaint from them. Something to consider.

*how in the hell does an obviously empty baffle get past the sewing crew, inspectors, AND a salesman at Campsaver I'll never know. It would be like selling a new car with a flat tire…other than that the quality seemed fine.

Hi there,

I thought I'm the only one with thin spots problem.

I bought SS #3 and SS #4 after reading reviews about SS system.
While I have been observing them I was shocked by 2 almost empty boxes the bags had in the chest area. BOTH of them.
Hardly believable that Montbell company produce this.
I will ship them back to store (backcountry.com) and will demand refund.
Then I will look for other options.
Nunatak or WM … something with good quality control.

If you like everything else about the bag, then maybe call Backcountry to tell them you want to return for an exchange — and have them examine the replacements before shipping them to you.

WM is first rate (obviously) — but one thing about my beloved MontBell — the fabric is noticeably softer and comfier.

My comment on 11 oz was based from a poster in store at the Montbell Outlet here in Boulder. However, it appears that my memory was only considering the synthetic versions and the Montbell website still disagrees with the poster by 1 oz.

The weights listed for the #3 shows a 10oz difference between the UL alpine burrow #3 long (2lbs 2oz) and the SS Burrow #3 long (2lbs 12oz).

Having crawled inside each they are identical except for the stretch system, which granted is pretty darn cool and comfortable as the non-stretch version is really narrow for a guy with really wide shoulders.

There is less of a weight penalty for the SS feature in the ligther bags, but we were specifically talking about the #3's. I unfortunately only remembered the weights for the synthetic versions.

Being international customer I have hard time each time I should send something from/to US.
During next month I will be in US with business trip and from there I will proceed with this procedure.
I certainly will think about this option but how could I be sure that this time the bags will be OK? I have concerns about asking backcountry salesman to check the bags, just not sure how it could work.
Fortunately my friend has two WM bags so I could compare them with Montbell.

I appreciate the heads-up regarding possible baffle fill issues. I have crawled in the bag for size but did not carefully look it over for fill. I will do so before purchasing.

My local gear shop has the bag at full retail and I can do much better on-line, shipping included. But I like to buy locally when there's not a huge $$ difference. Their service, ability to try on, the local economy all provide a value to me, but were talking over 20% difference. I guess I will ask him to see if he can come closer.

Thanks for all the good input.

Paul

Just a heads up for anyone shopping ebay for MontBell SS bags. There are several for sale at the moment from a guy using goodlord3 as his user name. The bags are advertised with a location of PA, but they are actually in CA. The guy is also using two different last names. I won a bid for a bag for a good price, but when there were too many odd issues I backed out. Your mileage may vary.

No idea where the guy gets the bags, but they are advertised as new. Hearing about possible fill defects makes a person wonder if these are seconds or if they are trying to get rid of bad bags.

Slavenya:

Yeah, buying internationally does add complications — and sometimes despair.

I think you should look at your friend's two WM bags. You might just decide on getting one yourself. However, if you still prefer the MontBell, here's another suggestion:

1. E-mail MontBell's Customer Service department and explain the defect. You should link this thread so they can see for themselves that "empty baffles" is not just an isolated problem (actually, they should know already, but another reminder can't hurt).

2. Explain what it costs to ship internationally and have MontBell credit you for your postage (a MontBell gift card would be nice). Given how expensive MontBell bags are and the obvious quality defect, I can't imagine MontBell would refuse to pick up postage both ways.

Finally, post your MontBell customer-service experience here so folks will know. Best of luck — be it WM or MontBell.

Paul,

I've done exactly what your original post asked about – pairing a mid-temp SS with a down jacket. I've got a #4, and I've used it plus the jacket comfortably on nights down into the low-20's/upper-10's. (Even awoke one morning to a snow drift inside the tarp) One difference in our systems though: I put the jacket on the outside of the bag, drapped over me like a quilt, rather than inside. My logic was that inside the bag it would probably be less effective as insulation due to the compression, plus the fact that half of the down in it would always be under me, squashed flat. But on top of the bag both the bag and jacket's down could be at their maximum fluffiness. Of course, I did no real testing, but if you get cold with the jacket on inside the bag try taking it off and draping it over the top of the bag and see if it helps.

Ben, thank for the suggestions.

Yesterday I reviewed the bags again. I asked for help from friend of mine just to be sure that the things I see are not in my imagination only.

We inspected each box of both bags I have and take some pictures.
The results are exceed all my expectation:
In U.L. SS #4 There are 3 boxes (all in chest area) which suffer from lack of down. One of them completely empty. The other 2 has (in my opinion) 50% down less that boxes in surrounding area.
In U.L SS #3 There are 2 boxes in middle area near zipper that again has less down that others in that area.

Maybe these bags are designs to be that way but I seriously doubt this.

I will write MontBell email and describe to them all this situation.

Mean while is someone know way to order Cumulus Quantum bags outside of UK?