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Refuge-X: preliminary review

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PostedAug 5, 2008 at 4:33 pm

Although it’s mid-winter here in the southern hemisphere, I have been doing some ‘backyard’ testing of the SMD cuben Refuge-X. Although preliminary, I thought it worthwhile to share my observations so far.

The first test I attempted was a wind stability test. The forecast was for gale-force gusts, so I rushed home to set the tent up. Unfortunately, by the time I got home, the wind had already picked up, and I struggled to try and pitch the tent by myself. Perhaps not surprising given this fabric was designed as sail-cloth! However I quickly abandoned this test as I was unable (unexperienced perhaps) to get a taught pitch and I feared I would completely lose the tent, so I took it down. This was also a difficult task in gusty winds!

The second test was a condensation test. My hopes (expectations) were that the upward slanting top vents would lead to less internal condensation on a cold night. This night was calm and got down to a low of -3 C (~25 F). I was the sole occupant of the tent. By the middle of the night the tent was completely saturated on the inside, from top to bottom. By morning I experienced the worst case of condensation I have ever seen, even with two people in a tarptent! As is usual after a good frost, the next day was clear and sunny, so I left the tent pitched on the back lawn to dry out. It rapidly dried on the outside, but amazingly it developed even MORE condensation on the inside. It seems that all the exposed mesh around the perimeter of the floor was allowing the damp lawn to evaporate into the tent in the sun’s heat.

The third test was again precipitated by a really bad weather forecast. Many days of heavy rain and surface flooding followed as promised, and the tent was left standing out in this for 4 days. Here’s a picture of the tent as pitched just before the storm hit:

refuge-x pre storm

And here it is after 4 days of heavy rain and wind.

after storm

As you can see there is light surface flooding of the lawn. Inside, the tent faired better than I hoped, but there were some obvious weak points in the tents design. There was a little leakage were the side pull-outs attached. This I’m sure I can fix with another coat or two of silicone (the seams all had two coats of thinned sealant applied before these tsts). There was some spray that had come in through the vent on the windward side of the tent, but not too bad. If the winds had been stronger and closer to horizontal I think this would have been a very wet tent. There was no condensation on the inside of the tent, but that’s because there was no one inside generating heat.

A lot of the water that entered the tent was from the mesh floor perimeter. Although the floor itself was not submerged and the mesh was clear of the ground, the mesh wicked water in from where it attaches to the edge. Moving this seam back just a smidgen would have prevented this wicking, though require a bit more seam sealing and may weaken the fabric too much? You can see the tracks of the wicked water here, where they appear as snail-trails on the mesh.

inside refuge-x

But the worst water entry came from the door side of the tent where there was excess loose mesh hanging down, dipping into the wet grass and wicking. There was at least a cup of water pooled on the silnylon floor from this wicking (picture not shown for brevity).

All in all, the fabric itself was very waterproof, but the design could use some tweaking. I am going to add a bathtub floor, using cuben fiber to clip up over the mesh perimeter when needed. The vents don’t need to be slanted upwards, and bringing them down a notch would make it harder for rain to blow in, and possibly make the tent easier to achieve a taught pitch. I may be doing something wrong, but I was unable to get a truly tight pitch no matter how much fiddling I did. In the end I just pitched it exactly as per Ron’s instructions, even though this didn’t seem optimal. The 'sleeves' for the pole handles did not fit my poles. I'm guessing these sleeve were designed for the smaller foam grips found on UL CF poles. In the end I just wrapped the extra webbing around my pole handles (to stabilise the poles and pull the vestibules out) then ran a stake through the "sleeve".

pole sleeve wrap

This actually felt more stable as it brought the poles in closer to the tent and more upright. When pitched as directed, the poles have an ungainly lean on them that felt a little unreliable. It was easier to put tension on the tent by bringing the poles in closer.

The last thing that bugged me (actually the first thing I noticed) was that the outer vestibule zipper stops well short of the top of the tent, even though the inner mesh zipper was full height. This makes entry and exit from the tent a limbo act that an extra couple of inches of zipper would solve. I am also contemplating a way to cover the top vents if necessary. The single vestibule is too small to attempt cooking inside, and maybe a small tarp could be pitched over the door for prolonged rainy weather.

Keep in mind that, including 4 guy-lines, this is a true one pound (456 grams on my scale) two person tent. It survived a deluge, though any occupants would have been kept busy mopping up drips and dribbles coming in, and my site selection was intentionally on the boggy side.

I’m still not confident that this tent will handle big winds, but time will tell. For three season one or two person use, I think it will be adequate in most situations, but I hope I don’t have to face a gale in it. Then again, that’s true of any tent!

PostedAug 5, 2008 at 4:57 pm

Can you resize the first 2 photos? They are HUGE and cause the text to not word wrap, making reading difficult since you have to scroll.

PostedAug 5, 2008 at 5:16 pm

Ryan, somewhere on your browser toolbar you hopefully have a "fit to width" or "resize" or similar tool that should automatically resize to fit your window. I can resize the photos, but probably not until tomorrow. They fit fine on my browser, but I'm using Opera.

Brett Peugh BPL Member
PostedAug 5, 2008 at 5:33 pm

I second Ryan's request. It is impossible to read using a mainstream browser like Firefox. I am glad you like using Opera but you are less than 1%. The image is something like 2700×1550 pixels. That is how you know it is too big.

mark cole BPL Member
PostedAug 5, 2008 at 5:44 pm

First off, you don't use silicon on Cuben to seam seal, you're supposed to use the stuff for "normal " tents. Second, if you use the right length pole but not at the right angle as you did by shortening the pole pockets, you'll have a hard time getting a proper pitch.

PostedAug 5, 2008 at 6:12 pm

I will resise the photos tonight, though if it really bothers you, you can just copy/save the photos and look at them in whatever you normally use to view JPEGs. Turn off your images to view the font without the images, or just copy the text into a word doco. I can't shrink the images just now.

My bad Mark, I used McNett seam seal (or was it seam grip?) and it worked very well, but didn't penetrate the seams as well as a thinned equivalent would have. I was OK with this as I was hoping it would reinforce the seams, but there is still a small leak on one side…easily fixed.

As for proper pitch, as I said I tired that first (I tried it several times) and got nothing but a floppy tent with the mesh lying on the ground. Once I moved the poles in slightly, the pitch tightened and the floor lifted. Also, since the pole sleeves didn't fit my poles, I had little choice as the poles won't stay in place in wind without something to 'anchor' them. After the ground got soggy I extended the poles some more as they sank into the soft soil. It's not an exact science where you can just say "always set your poles at X inches and Y dgerees from vertical". I can imagine situations when it's dry and cold and blowing spindrift where you would want to shorten the poles so the mesh is lying on the ground to reduce 'ventilation', and other times of high heat where you would raise them more to increase ventilation. I chose the best I could in the circumstances, and aside from the wicking and wind-driven rain (neither of which were affected by my pitch) it seemed to work well.

Brad Groves BPL Member
PostedAug 6, 2008 at 9:55 am

Allison-
Thanks for a great review! Very detailed, nuance-oriented and insightful–good stuff.

PostedAug 6, 2008 at 12:46 pm

I'm giving a big THANK YOU to Roger Caffin for resizing the photos for me while I was off doing more fun things.

I noticed something in the newly resized photos that I also forgot to mention, and that was the double guy lines on the side pull-outs. This may or may not have been 'necessary', but since I was not going to be in the tent and it was going to be standing for an unknown number of days in unknown winds, I wanted to ensure the tent would stay put. Using a single guy line left the side poles rather 'wobbly' in the wind (as I had found out on my failed wind test), but this double method was extremely stable. So for weather security in bad conditions I would be looking at 6 guylines and 12 pegs. I haven't added up what this would weigh yet, the weight I initially measured was just tent, 4 guylines and seam sealing, no pegs. It will still be freakin' light, even with some extra perimeter cuben to form a bathtub floor.

Are the side guy lines even needed? Depends on who will be using the tent. My partner won't leave home without a Stephenson's DAM which adds ~3" of height, plus the height of down loft above the DAM. In this case, the side pull outs are essential as this sleeping arrangement is so high off the ground that both head and foot of bag touch the ends of the tent if not pulled out and up. My feeling is also that they do add wind stability, but are something I might pass on if using it by myself with a 1" thick Ridgerest and light winds.

Also notice the second photo was not taken from the same spot as the first. This was because the original position was covered in too much water for me to comfortably take the photo without changing my shoes or going barefoot in the freezing water. I wasn't feeling that dedicated!

John Roan BPL Member
PostedAug 6, 2008 at 12:55 pm

Thanks for the detailed review Allison! I've only had the opportunity to use mine twice so far, with light wind and rain, but so far so good. Here's a view of my pitch…

Charleston Peak Refuge X

With two people and a dog sleeping in the tent, we have had no condensation, but then again we live in the desert. Even at 11,000' and light rain, the inside stayed dry.

I am heading to the hills of southern Utah this weekend with our Boy Scouts, and we get allot of afternoon thunderstorms up there, so the testing continues.

John

te – wa BPL Member
PostedAug 6, 2008 at 1:16 pm

good lookin pitch. John.. is that really at 11k? (which would be above treeline?) on the slopes of Hart Prairie perhaps?
this shelter seems like a great choice for 3 season protection for 2. Id love to get my hands on some Cuben!

John Roan BPL Member
PostedAug 6, 2008 at 2:00 pm

This marker is at 10,741' according to a local website.

Charleston - South Loop junction

Our camp was in the meadow area on South Loop trail heading towards Charleston Peak, which is 11,918' (near Las Vegas, NV). The trail from the junction in this photo to camp is mostly flat, maybe just a little up hill. Our camp is about a mile from this trail junction near an ancient Bristlecone forest. About another 500' or so up, before you get to the peak, you do go above treeline.

I have to say that there is a learning curve to get a good pitch with this tent. Basically, you need a good square footprint pitch, with the correct pole height. I think with some experience, it will get much easier.

John

PostedAug 6, 2008 at 3:40 pm

For the record, my Refuge-X pitch was not 'floppy' and looked pretty much like John's … It's just that you can't get a drum tight pitch with this tent, unlike most of the silnylon tarptents I've used. So it will flap around in the wind. I noticed that it tightened up a lot when I pulled (by hand) at the apex on the tent edges where the vent attaches on to the main body, which makes me wonder if part of my problem is some lack of translation of the torque from the guylines through the vent flaps. Maybe even just making these vent flaps out of silnylon would improve the taughtness?? Or adding some grossgrain webbing across the top of the tent apex to provide a solid piece of fabric to pull on (though this may add yet another seam to seal or have fail). I dunno, I just feel there is some room for improvement in pitch dynamics.

John Roan BPL Member
PostedAug 6, 2008 at 4:01 pm

Allison,

My ridgeline seems to be flatter than yours…and I'm not sure if that even matters unless it is flapping in the wind…

Charleston Refuge X ridgeline

Not sure if it's because your sides were guyed out farther, or your poles were taller. Mine took allot of tweaking to get it like this…mostly pole height. Did your ridgeline flap in the wind?

It is definitely a challenge to get a taut pitch at first, but I assume with experience it will get much easier.

John

te – wa BPL Member
PostedAug 6, 2008 at 4:13 pm

well thanks to John and Allison for the info. I have never hiked above treeline so am ignorant of where it begins…
but your info is helping me decide on a good shelter for the winter trips I'll be doing in snow. Hail all things Cuben!

PostedAug 6, 2008 at 5:46 pm

John, my poles were closer and higher than yours (to increase clearance down low) which definitelt pulled the ridgeline down some. If I leave the side guys off all together, the ridgeline looks flat, but flaps even more than with guys in place.

Roger Caffin BPL Member
PostedAug 6, 2008 at 6:38 pm

> My ridgeline seems to be flatter than yours…and I'm not sure if that even matters

Well, I don't have one of these, but looking carefully at the several very good pics here makes me think that the design is quite sensitive to the height of the poles and the tension across the ridge. Is this so?

PostedAug 6, 2008 at 7:05 pm

>makes me think that the design is quite sensitive to the height of the poles and the tension across the ridge. Is this so?

I think the height of the poles is more important for controlling how far the mesh perimeter of the floor is off the ground. On solid ground, the recommended 45" pole setting seems just right for this unless, like I did, you bring the poles in a little closer/upright which obviously makes them taller, lifting the floor even higher (or in my case needing to lenghten the poles as the ground sunk under them).

Tension on the ridgeline-I don't know. I cranked on it pretty hard and got a nice tight ridgeline, but that still left the side walls slackish. To take up this slack (and raise the side walls) I poled out the sides, but this flattened the ridgeline, leaving it on the floppy side. I will try again tonight to illustrate, with and without side poles, and varying main pole heights.

If you look at the SMD website at the difference between the silnylon Refuge and the cuben Refuge-X, it is clear that the silnylon one is nice and taught, the cuben much less so. I really think this comes down to a fabric difference.

http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=11&cat=Shelters

Also, in this previous thread,

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/13527/index.html?skip_to_post=99959#99959

Ron of SMD says the Refuge-X is setup correctly, yet looks pretty 'loose' to me. Further down in that thread is another photo of the silnylon Refuge pitched…much nicer pitch.

PostedAug 6, 2008 at 10:07 pm

Looks, to me, that both the fabric and the tensioning are responsible for the different pitch. Silnylon stretches a bit but from what I understand, Cuben doesn't.
The more you tension the side guylines (canopy extension) the greater the bow on the ridge.
See side view of John's Refuge X, also the top and bottom picture of the Refuge on the "additional photos" at the SMD site (scroll the mouse over the small picture and view the enlarged version at the top )
Franco

John Roan BPL Member
PostedAug 7, 2008 at 8:02 am

The "floating canopy", IMHO, is what makes achieving a taut pitch more challenging with this tent.

The way mine was pitched in the photos, the bottom netting was mostly on the ground. Since Allison's taller poles got the netting to lift off the ground, it should make the tent more rain proof? I will play with different pole heights this weekend and see what I can come up with.

PostedAug 7, 2008 at 1:18 pm

Yes John, in theory (and in this situation in practice) the tent and it's occupants will be more resistant to rain penetration from the net flooring if the netting is not touching the ground. A big caveat is that silnylon itself is not completely waterproof, and if you camp in a bog you ARE going to get wet. This was well illustrated when I kneeled inside the tent to take photos. I was there less than a minute, but by the time I left you could see the water seeping through the silnylon floor where my knees had been pressing. I also think that had I been IN the tent, it would have pushed the whole floor down below the water line and been flooded. As it was empty, the silnylon was able to 'float' above the water. All this really tells me is that site selection is critical, but I already knew that. This was a tough rain test, and overall the tent performed well (we're talking 4 days of very heavy rain that wreaked mayhem all over New Zealand). It really just needs a bathtub option, maybe optional vent covers, and I'm looking at adding either a guy line on the inside to hang stuff or a couple of mesh pockets. This is a true no-frills tent and is perfect for the minimalist. I just like a few little extras to make tent life more bearable. I also always carry a bivy bag for both ground moisture and anything that might blow into the tent, so I'll never be an SUL kinda gal, but I'll be pretty comfortable in this tent.

As this is just a preliminary review, I have not yet rated it in the gear review forum. Field experience will have a big impact on my final review. Each of my three tests I chose because of the weatehr forecast, so I knew what to expect, and could back out if things turned too bad (as I did in the wind test) . In the real world this tent will face the very unexpected. After all, if I EXPECTED torrential rain and gales, I would stay home. If it blows to bits in it's first real wind, it will get a 1/5. If it survives several torrential downpours AND gale force winds AND heavy snow on dodgy sites, it will get a 5+/5. Most likely it will be somewhere in between. It is only designed to be a "3-season" tent, so we shouldn't set the bar too high, but in this part of the world that fourth season can just sneak up on you any time of year.

John Roan BPL Member
PostedAug 7, 2008 at 3:56 pm

Yes Allison, site selection is a big one. Per the SMD website, a plastic ground cloth is needed to make the floor more waterproof. I'm going to try the Tyvek ground cloth (although not waterproof) and (attempt) to chose the correct site in which to pitch and see how that goes tomorrow. I think the Tyvek will help, and making sure I'm not in a bog or washout area might just keep me dry. I will let you know.
John

John Roan BPL Member
PostedAug 11, 2008 at 2:34 pm

Allison,

Two days of afternoon rain & hail this weekend, with pole height of approx. 113cm, which puts the bottom netting horizontal, but above the ground. The only water I had was some dripping at the guy-out seams, which I neglected to seam seal (my fault). Although it was only a couple hours of rain each day, it was hard enough to leave puddles on the ground, and put out a camp fire. For where I live, we don't see much more rain than this, but it sounds like it's different in your neck of the woods.

Have you had a chance to do any more testing?
John

PostedAug 11, 2008 at 4:20 pm

No John, no more testing on the immediate horizon as my next test will be a true "field test". I'm going to be travelling for the next 6 weeks, so won't get into the field before then.

The rain itself is usually not a problem provided site selection is sensible (this is true of all the tarptents I've tried). The problem arises when the rain is accompanied by heavy or gale force winds, or unforecast snow blowing spindrift all around, or even gale force winds without the rain. I can imagine that in desert environments getting sandblasted would be an unpleasant experience! So it will really come down to wind one way or another, which is why I'm keen to have the option of closing up all the mesh perimeter and vents if needed. It won't add much wieght, but a lot of piece of mind.

As an aside, does anyone know how to seal a seam that joins silnylon to cuben? I gather silicone treatment doesn't stick well to cuben, and seam grip doesn't do well on silnylon…? I think that I will make vent covers using DriDucks material (from some pants that ripped apart on their first use).

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