versalite and puma

I use a 35 degree Caribou MF for 3 season and 10 degree Versalite for winter. I'm not sure what the temps are like in NY but I can't see using a 10 degree bag for 3 season.

Chris,
Thanks for that reply ! Well I have a coleman canyon 32(really 50 ish) as a warm weather bag.I was thinking of buying the versalite because it has great reviews on BPL. I would use it between 10-50 f bag. I was planning on using the puma as a -20 to 30 f bag.

I guess it depends on your body a lot. As an example, I was a on trip last weekend where the overnight lows were mid 50s and my GF and I shared my Caribou unzipped and used like a quilt. I even had to stick a leg out during the night to cool off because I got too warm. Had I been using it like a traditional bag I would've sweated all night. The Versalite is a great bag for temps around it's rating and lower, just not sure how much warmer than say 20 I'd try to use it but I seem to be a warm sleeper.

The Puma could be a great choice for a winter bag–but you do want to make sure you don't get too much bag. Are you expecting actual air temperatures to be subzero? (Some people want a bag warm enough to compensate for windchill, but that shouldn't be a factor.) Your question will probably receive more comments saying to use a 10 degree bag for winter–with our inherent penchant for keeping weights as low as possible. But remember that your sleep system needs to be based on your personal metabolism and environment. I've done a fair bit of winter camping, and I definitely prefer a subzero bag for temps in that range. I mean, hey, it's warmer! And it makes me happier.

If you want a dedicated, deep winter bag the Puma would be a good choice. This being the BPL site, though, I'd also consider the Lynx (-10F) bag, and plan on wearing your down jacket to bed in colder weather. So many variables come into play… I use a VBL liner (WM Hotsac) in winter, and absolutely love it. (But you definitely don't wanna wear your down jacket in that!!) If you're layering up and using a VBL, I just drape my jacket over me–inside the bag or out, wherever it seems best at the time.

Because you'll have a dedicated winter bag, it wouldn't make sense to have a 10 degree bag–the temperature range is just too close. Summertime nights might well only be 50! I'd look at either the WM UltraLite (20F) or SummerLite (30F) for my three season bag. Their Tamarack is also a pretty interesting option. It'd be a "half" bag, meaning in colder weather you'd wear it with a jacket, 'cause the thing's only 5' long. I'm 5'6", and can just squeeze my shoulders below the drawcord at the neck, but it's definitely gettin' tight–and not exactly designed for that. (Idea is to pull it up under your arms.) What I like about the Tamarack is that its semi-rectangular shape unzips all the way around the footbox–so you can use it as a blanket in warm weather. Both 30F bags (SummerLite and Tamarack) weigh 19 ounces. Add in a down jacket for around camp and as backup warmth, you'll be fine for 3-season.

Just saw post re: using Puma up to 30F. I don't mean to be blunt, but I really can't see that as being practical. Maybe up to 10 degrees?

.

Chris,
I see your point.Unfortunately I don't have a chance to use a bag and return it if it's a little to warm.
I'm a cold sleeper(born and bred in the tropics!).caribou suggestion sounds good.
Thanks for sharing that information with me.

Brad,
Your post was very instructive for a winter camping novice like me.I talked to the WM folks and they said
I could go about 50 f from the lower limit of the bag.I see your point on making my post headers a little more eye catching to BPL veterans who might be a
little jaded with noobs like me posting
all over the place.I have another thread running
on the gear lists forums.
Here's the link: It has my
layering information as well.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=14551&skip_to_post=109872#109872

I plan to use vaprthrm clothing,mitts and socks from RBH designs.I'm about 65". Tamrack,ultralite and summerlite sound like interesting options.

Dave,
Thanks for the warning about overheating in a sleeping bag.

Now for my statement about the weather:
Both these bags will be used on altitudes in himalayas.
Himalayas as far as I know and understand, has two major weather variations.
Dry/snowy(october to march -20f – 60f) and slightly/very wet(april to september 20/30(?)f – 70 f).
Mountain weather and temperatures are unpredictable to a degree.
Since ultra lite was rated to 25, I thought I should be conservative and go with versalite.
Maybe I could go with ultra lite and layer up if it hits lower than 20/25 f unexpectedly.
I would like a dedicated winter bag like
puma for winter expeditions to high altitude
areas greater 15k feet.The temperatures
drop into the -20's range and I don't
want to take a chance.

Layer options for really cold weather:
As I've said I will use VBL clothing by RBH designs.
I plan on using synthetic jackets for all areas except ladakh(which is dry and really cold).
link:
http://www.koausa.org/Ladakh/index.html

Can anyone suggest a nice down jacket that I can combine with my OR chaos jacket as a clothing system for cold and dry weather?

capilene->vaprthrm->OR chaos->down jacket(??)->OR mentor(hard shell)

Please let me know your thoughts and questions.

Hi Raj,
I'll second Brad's recommendation of either a Summerlite or an Ultralite. But, since you're a cold sleeper, the Ultralite would probably be the safest bet. If you wanted a little extra insurance/peace of mind, you could get an Ultralite with 2 oz of overfill. That's what I have, along with a Summerlite for mid season trips, and I can take the Ultralite with overfill down into the mid-teens comfortably. YMMV of course.

Raj,

You will want to pay attention to the girth of the bag, (the bag measurement around your chest, hips and legs).

You mentioned "layering up" which gives good room for flexibility, but make sure you have room in any given bag to do so.

I have WM bags and love them but be aware that the girth for their bags varies significantly from model to model. They have a link to a "comparison chart" on the left side of their website (both English and metric units).

For instance, I have a MegaLite and my wife has the UltraLite. I am over 6 feet tall and weigh near 200 lbs. The MegaLite allows me to add a layer but there is no way I could in the UltaLite.

On the other hand, my wife is 5'-2" and 115 lbs. and the UltraLite is perfect for her and she can add a layer.

The moral of the story is that one person's solution isn't necessarily another person's solution. But one thing I feel sure of is that you will be happy with Westerm Mountaineering once you find your model!

Tom,
Thanks for that information about overfill. That's a good idea.

Michael,
Thanks for that bit about girth and fitting in the bag with your layers bit. I will need to buy a down jacket and vest that I can take on my trips before I go shopping for my WM bag.I will have to look for some retail stores to try the bags out with all my layers.
Yes, buying layers that suit your body type/BMR/metabolism makes sense.

SO now I go looking for a down jacket. What do you all think of the mountain hardware sub zero ?
I am thinking og the WM flash vest as an option for down vest.
BTW when do all the deals for down jackets/vest happen ?

Thanks again to everyone in this thread for taking the time to pass on valuable information to me !

Raj,
A couple of additional thoughts: 1) If you decide to go with a WM Ultralite with overfill, be aware that it is a special order item. A good place to buy it is through travelcountry.com, a very well regarded online store with free shipping and no sales tax regardless of the customer's state. You can check out the sizing of the Ultralite first at any retail store, as the overfill will not affect its dimensions appreciably. 2) As regards down jackets/vests. The WM flash is very light(~3.5 oz), but has a V-neck that leaves the throat and a bit of the upper chest exposed. I can't figure out why they did that. I think a much better bet for a vest would be Montbell, very well made and light. Particularly useful as part of a sleep system, IMO. The WM Flight jacket is a great jacket(typical WM product) but I wonder how well it would work inside an Ultralite, since it has a lot of loft. I know I would never be able to wear mine inside my Ultralite, and I'm a skinny little 5'7" 137 pounder. Both the Montbell Down Inner Vest(5 oz) and Down Inner Jacket(6.9 oz) would work admirably as part of a sleep system AND as insulation under a wind shirt or WPB jacket for 3 season activities under ~15000'. Above that elevation, you are getting into high altitude mountaineering conditions, which require a bit more insulation all around, from your sleep system to your clothing system. You could add to your 3 season gear, at the risk of things getting pretty bulky, or go with a second, more specialized set of clothing and sleeping bag. Definitely worth thinking through before buying, IMO. I've been there and, looking back, have to admit that I should've thought it through more thoroughly. I ended up spending more money than I had to. Then again, there weren't nearly as many UL choices as there are today. Best of luck and I hope you have a great time, whatever you choose.

I have used the Versalite in all kinds of weather. It is a nearly perfect bag. There's plenty of room for layers, a good neck collar and continuous baffles. Being too warm is not a problem IMHO as you can just use it like a quilt, or lie on top of it if you get too hot. The 10F rating of the Versalite is very conservative. I don't have any experience with the Puma or Caribou.

And I'm a sucker for the Nunatak Skaha line of down jackets, especially if you're going sub zero…WM flight is great too, just lacking baffles.

Just a note: Travelcountry.com was mentioned as a source for WM bags. I live in South Florida and drive 200+ miles to Orlando where there store is because I haven't found any outfitter in Floria that compares with them. There are good people there that love hiking and always give me great service.

Michael,
Thank you for that recommendation. I will check them out.