Quilt vs. Bag

If you want a sneak peak then try this. Take a mummy or whatever type bag you may have, unzip it and sleep with it on top of you instead of inside of it. Our survival instructors in Germany used to teach this technique for evasion purposes as it would be quicker to shed a top bag than to get out of the inside of a mummy bag and avoid capture. My first quilt I took an extra patrol weight army sleeping bag, removed the zipper (which reduced 10 oz )and cut the hooded portion off to square off the top. This is a means of testing the water, don’t forget the incorporation of your clothing and shelter to encompass a 3 part or layered sleep system. Good luck and enjoy, me personally I made an extra layer polarguard quilt from a Rayway kit, modified it similar to No Sniveler style. Have yet to finnish the head opening and velcro tapes, drawstring system works good though.

This is a religious topic that will invoke strong views. Here are mine:

I have owned:

A WM Pod 30 – not a quilt. I like it and won’t sell it. Comfortable to 45 or so. In a bivy, may be 35?? I only use it in summer when I am certain the temps will be above 40.

A WM Pod 15 – obviously warmer than a Pod 30. I swapped it for an Arc Alpinist. I am not use whether I’d prefer this to a WM Ultralight.

Nunatak Arc Ghost – see my review in the reader reviews. IMHO, this bag is close to useless though others have found it a great bag. Go figure!

Nunatak Arc Alpinist – tons of loft. 180 grams lighter than WM Ultralight. I almost liked this bag but the drafts ended up upsetting me. Occasionally, the cold air comes in and I hated it. I can see why some people swear by this bag though. It’s been eBayed.

Current bag – Feathered Friends Hummingbird with overfill. Epic exterior. 0.85 interior. Arrived today. We’ll see how it goes this weekend. I am a bit sick of the super ultralight bags and am sticking with lightweight conventional designs from now on. I had to know if the quilts were for me and they were not. I can die happy.

ahhh, a fundamentalist, I see. more quilts for we benighted heretics. ;-)>

>>”I can die happy”

and…
apparently warm.

perhaps these two, viz. happy and warm, are “joined at the hip”???

i’m thinking of trying a quilt (starting inexpensively with a FanaticFringe quilt, perhaps). might work for me. i’m a back sleeper and don’t toss and turn much. so, i’m hoping air xchange won’t be an issue. really like my WM HighLite. FanaticFringe quilt would be heavier though. so, this seems to run counter to “lightening” up. so, if i liked quilts, this would lead to spending big bucks for a Nunatak (or two for wider temp range). maybe a top bag might be the solution? (b/c no drafts like with a quilt) i think MLD is making a new top-bag.

so what are the main reasons you quilt users out there pick a quilt over the currently available top-bags?

I’m currently making two quilts and had considered the idea of a top bag but have now gone back to the quilt.

The reason I didn’t like the top bag idea is that I hate being enclosed in a bag. I’m not clostrophobic but I don’t like the restriction in a bag and find it very stuffy and uncomfortable. I am a side sleeper and remain reasonably in the same positin once I fall asleep (doesn’t take long on the trail). Because I like to roll a bit before I nod off I decided to add some draft stoppers not dissimilar to the ones on a ray way quilt. I noted that I’m making two bags one with a single 3D layer and one with a double. The reason for this is that I really don’t expect temps lower than about 70 at night for at least the next 4 months or so. However I did think ahead and considered if I’m not using a bivy and it gets cold and I need to secure it under myself what was I going to do. After looking around for a while and not seeing anything that I thought would work for me I decided to have a zip that encloses the foot box and come up to about mid calf. After this I’ve used some grossgrain ribbon on each side and a few lengths of elastic cord with the ability to adjust the size to allow more or less ventilation. I saw in the ghost review that they weren’t put in satisfactory places so I put mine in more securing positions. I’m still undecided about the length. I’m thinking of cutting it to nose length, having a cinching colar and just taking a beanie and windshirt since 35 would be my absloute minimum temp.

After that rant I need a break. I just can’t hold myself through large text writing like PJ. Maybe I just don’t know as much or don’t have anything to say.

I guess the solution is if you like a bag then a topbag might be for you if you don’t then a quilt might be the answer. If you’re a side sleeper and worried about drafts. customize the bag to be wider and possibly add draft stoppers.

Jacob,

many thanks for the reply. good info. thanks.

had to smile and chuckle at…

>>”large text writing like PJ”
not an unbiased opinion, but i think i’m getting a little better in that dept. a bit slow on the uptake, i guess.

funny, i’m a bit hypocritical here. in person i rarely say much, unless specifically asked for my opinion. try to follow the advice of a couple of old proverbs – “Even a fool, if he is silent, is thought to be wise.” and “Where words are many, sin [substitute whatever word makes sense to your situation, e.g. “error”, “mistakes”, “b.s.”] is not absent.”

in writing, another story. i actually dislike writing – too easy to be misunderstood (in my case at least). was a tech writer in a “prev. life”. kept my editor very busy, to say the least – quite an understatement.

guess i’m trying to “anticipate” readers questions and address a wide audience range – hence too much detail in my posts.

’nuff said.

For Petras,

I’m using the Nunatak Arc Ghost and I partially share your opinion of the bag at lower temperatures. Wish I knew that you were putting the Alpinist on ebay though cause that’s probably my next purchase. I’m thinking of having Tom make me another semi-custom quilt (Alpinist) with standard fill, slightly larger footbox (for layering over the Ghost), with quantum exterior and 0.85 interior.

Horses for courses.

Paul asks,
so what are the main reasons you quilt users out there pick a quilt over the currently available top-bags?

A quilt is the closest equivalent to sleeping in your bed at home. Freedom of movement, easy to get in and out of, etc.

I find enclosed bags uncomfortable. A top bag is just an enclosed bag without insulation on the bottom.

Daniel,

thanks so much for the reply. “easy to get in and out of”…i’m all for that. guess i should give a quilt a try. thanks again.

I always hated the restrictions of a real mummy bag, and generally carried a modified mummy or even a rectangular bag. This year I made a Ray-Way quilt (36.9 oz., cut extra long and extra wide with an additional layer of batting) and I’m not going back to a sleeping bag. I’m a side/stomach sleeper (unless I’m travelling solo, in which case I sleep on my back so my snoring keeps the bears away ;) and I just wear a shirt and long-johns and lay on my sleeping pad(s). The quilt seems just as warm as a bag ever did (this quilt is too warm, but it’s not winter yet) and it’s easy to stick out a leg or whatever to cool off.

A quilt also works much better in a hammock.

Thanks Douglas. I now understand the flexibility a quilt affords vs. a bag for adjusting to varying temperatures.

Very good, very good. Thanks for all the info and opinions. I’m leaning toward getting the JRB No Sniveller. Has anyone here used this? Is the 2.4″ loft enough to handle 30 deg nights, relative to other insulation systems? Fanatic Fringe claims their quilt with 1.8″ loft is good for 30 deg temps. That seems like a bit of a stretch to me. I know this is a subjective matter, but any opinions would be helpful nevertheless.

My other question: is 48″ enough width for someone with average-width shoulders?

Thanks

Paul,
You might also check out the Ray Jardine page (if it’s still up) and click on the quilt page. There are lots of pictures there that show how the quilt can be used at varying temperatures.

Basically, it’s loosely thrown over you at warmer temps, then as it gets colder you can start tucking the sides of the quilt under you to reduce the girth, etc.

The pictures there will give you the general idea.

I mentioned previously that quilts are easy to get into/out of, but I forgot to mention that with some quilts (namely the nunatak quilts) when in “lock down mode”, ie the straps running underneath you and tightened up, it’s obviously harder to get out than with the straps unfastened.

I generally only use the straps when pushing the limit of the bags temp rating, otherwise the quilt is loose over me or with the edges tucked under me.

Cheers
Dan

Good info Dan. I’ve been to the RayJ site, but never really looked at it very closely. Thanks.

Stephan,

I have the original No Sniveller and it had only 1.5″ loft. It is good to 40 degrees. 2″ of loft is good to 30 degrees. I have 10+ nights under the No Sniveller and it performs great.

48″ of width is plenty for average shoulders.

The sarape capability allows me to cut back on jacket weight.

It is a great product and I highly recommend it.

It has never been discussed, by why hasn’t anyone ever designed an Arc Alpinist with straps AND a zip + draft tube. It would add about 4 ounces max and eliminate drafts on cold nights and still have the versatility of a quilt.

If it wasn’t such an expensive experiment, I might have tried it but went for the FF bag instead.

Thanks Richard! That’s very helpful.

Stephan,
Don’t forget that with the JRB quilt you can distribute more of the down to the section on top of you to increase loft, with less down along the sides, which will be at the sides and tucked under you.

Of course, you can’t do that with the synthetic quilt. I have an old golite fuz quilt with 1.5 inches of loft which is rated at 40 degrees. I would not use this quilt for 30 degree temps.

Arc bag with zip and draft tube:

The ghost and arc alpinist have shoulder girths of 45 and 55 inches. You can’t really fully close the straps on these unless you are pretty skinny and then you will probably have compression of the down. So you have to increase the girth, maybe to 59 or 60 inches or so, which is about the girth of some of the tighter mummy bags out there like the WM Ultralight.
But if you do that, the quilt now starts to look more and more like a standard hoodless mummy bag with a 3/4 zipper :)

Update:

I bought the JRB No Sniveller and it’s great. It’s so light it puts a silly grin on your face when you pick it up. It’s taken me comfortably down to 32 F when sleeping on the ground under a tarp. I posted a review in the reader reviews section.