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When to divorce your gear dealer…

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Viewing 17 posts - 1 through 17 (of 17 total)
PostedJun 29, 2008 at 9:58 pm

I think a great deal of people share the same philosophy of wanting to be able to be treated fairly and respectfully when purchasing gear. I have always found that sticking to one or two good local dealers sometimes can be far more beneficial than purchasing online. Being able to see the differences, to hold, touch, feel. Sometimes that has been the make or break ideal in whether I purchase a particular item or not.

When I lived in New England I enjoyed a great relationship with a local Eastern Mountain Sports. For almost 5 years I saw many of the same people employed there over and over. Knowledgeable people. People with trail experience. If I had a problem, it got taken care of.

When I moved to Bozeman, MT in Oct 07, someone told me that one of the best places to go for gear was Bob Wards. Someone said "Sportsmans Warehouse". Another said Northern Lights.

In late February I started looking for a new pack for my daughter. We pretty much knew what we already wanted and I knew that Northern Lights was an authorized Osprey dealer. The first trip their was a disaster. The sales person that day claimed to be extremely "experienced" with fitting packs yet failed to measure my daughters torso after I asked 3 times. He kept insisting he knew what he was doing and tried to put a large sized pack on her small frame.

That day I sent a letter about my experience to their customer service department. I never heard one word back. I checked around town and unfortunately, this dealer was the only one in town who had what we wanted in stock.

On my return trip I found someone who was a "buyer", was knowledgeable on the gear, apologized to us profusely for our previous experience and helped us thru with our pack purchase. He restored my faith in their company and decided I was going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Almost every trip since then has been an exercise in patience and several have been an outright hassle just to purchase a product. As an example, I recently purchased an Outdoor Research tarp that was advertised online at one price, but in their main store it was another price. They then told me to get the special price to go to the other store.

I was also recently sent an email from their member rewards team that listed items on sale. When I went to purchase a pair of socks at the sales price, I was again told it was at the other location.

I went home from and looked at the email. It clearly stated the item was on sale at the location closest to my home. I took the email back to the store and showed it to the manager who then agreed with me and told me they were unaware. They sold me the socks that day for the sale price.

After a 3 day weekend trip I decided I liked these particular socks and went back to the store to purchase another pair. My wife was with me as she was the last time we were there. I explained politely to the clerk that was ringing me up that these socks were supposed to be on sale. She rang the manager who then told her he had already dealt with us and we knew the socks were not on sale there but at the other location. She hung up with him and I explained the story to her. She rang the manager again and asked him to come talk us. The store manager refused and told her he wasn't wasting his time with us.

I swear I have never seen a retail employee almost cry but this one did. She was visibly upset and angry at her manager. She looked up my account and saw that we had been sold this pair of socks at the sale price so rang the manager again and told him she looked up our sale and wanted to know why he sold us the socks at that price.

At this point the manager gets angry and comes to the front counter pointing his finger at me and my wife loudly exclaiming he told us once that the socks weren't on sale and that he had did us a favor, etc etc.

My wife who never gets angry in public was livid. We left the store telling him he had lost our business for good. He simply responded with "oh well".

So why this long post? I guess I am curious to know how much other people put up with before they finally decide they will no longer visit a particular business? I feel like I should have never went back after that first visit. In fact I looked at past receipts and since that first visit we had spent a total of $700.00 there with plans for many new items this fall. This kid obviously hasn't a clue how to run a retail business, treat his employees, etc.

I hope I never again have another experience like this and I guess from now on I will have to look at buying strictly online as it appears this was about the biggest gear dealer in Bozeman.

–Joe
http://www.bozemanstoveworks.com

Jason Brinkman BPL Member
PostedJun 29, 2008 at 10:33 pm

Without commenting specifically on your experience with NL…

I bet if you call BPL customer service that you could make an appointment to tour their Bozeman warehouse. Maybe they'll even let you touch some stuff if you don't wear out your welcome! If anybody knows gear… well, you already found this site so I guess you knew that.

What you can't find there should be available at ProLite. I would assume that they too are very gear savy:

ProLite Gear
421 West Griffin Drive, Suite 1
Bozeman, MT 59715
Phone: 406.582.0508
hours: M-Th 10:00AM to 4:00PM

A store like Barrel might be worth a visit:

Barrel Mountaineering
240 East Main Street
Bozeman, MT 59715
Phone: 406.582.1335

You might pay more at some specialty shops (not always), but you might just get what you were actually looking for without any trial and error, so perhaps it pays for itself.

Personally, I figure most of the big box stores are best assumed to be self-service. That is certainly the case with discount retailers. You may find some help in a REI or Sportsmans, but not everyone there has the knowledge you seek.

Now days, I do all my research online before I make a purchase. Sometimes I get a gear idea by browsing at a retailer, but very few stores have the info that I desire (exact weight, performance reviews, etc) available in the store.

A store that just wants to push merchandise, whether my questions are satisfied or not, is not setting themselves up for much loyalty from me.

PostedJun 29, 2008 at 11:00 pm

GOOD timing!!!

I just had the best customer experience of my life! seriously. just shop at http://www.detourgearzone.com

for the long version, read on:

I bought a golite ion at another place online on monday in the hopes it would fit my daughter, they screwed up my credit card number over the phone (always order online) and delayed my shipment a few days. I could tell it wasn't going to get here in time. We were supposed to leave on friday so I called golite and started calling around "local dealers" I happened across this guy who said "I have it in stock. I'm in corona, I'll DELIVER IT TO YOU TONIGHT! I'm in shock. Corona is way farther than I even wanted to drive to pick one up! It mapquested at 26 miles of southern california hell traffic. He insisted it wasn't that far, no problem. I placed my order and signed up for his online newsletter wtih an offer for 20% off the whole order. I bought something else too out of guilt. I didn't know if i would get the discount since i'd already placed the order but I didn't care. The guy (Robert) called me when he was leaving and showed up at my door holding my tiny box and a smile. He did all this, gave me the discount on all items and did not even charge me regular shipping fee!!!!! With the price of gas as it is. I almost expect him to be out of business soon. But what a guy! NOW THAT'S SERVICE!!!

PostedJun 29, 2008 at 11:30 pm

Jason – I met Ryan Jordan at a gear seminar with Andrew Skurka back in April. He said they have a warehouse in California and that items were not for sale locally.

Barrel Mountaineering – Too small.

Pro Lite – I honestly had no idea they were in Bozeman. I have heard the name before but never made the conection. Not sure how that happened. I'll probably take a visit there this week.

I do intend to try and contact the owner of Northen Lights and see if he is interested in hearing about my experience. Even so there will never be anything they could do to win me back. It was just pure insanity last Friday.

–Joe
http://www.bozemanstoveworks.com

Roger Caffin BPL Member
PostedJun 30, 2008 at 12:46 am

> I am curious to know how much other people put up with before they finally decide they will no longer visit a particular business?
One bad experience. Only one.

PostedJun 30, 2008 at 8:06 am

If you feel their emails and ads were false advertising, then complain to the AG of the state.

PostedJun 30, 2008 at 8:07 am

You've presented an interesting question. I don't like buying online, so I tend to buy all my gear at one of three places – Outdoor Gear Eschange (in Burlington, VT), REI (in Boston, MA), or EMS (Burlington, VT). Most of my gear has come from OGE, an equal amount from both REI and EMS. Thus far, I've had great experience (knock knock) at all of three of these stores. Generally the kids at the locally-owned shop, OGE, seem to have the most knowledge and understand of their products and outdoor activities. That said, I don't require much if any help at this point. I read and reseach all my gear choices online and see what other people are using in the field.

In other walks of life, I realize that sometimes a certain sales person may not know a lot about a product or may be having a bad day. What's much more important to me is how any problems that may arise get handled. One bad experience with the "front line" won't cause me to stop going to a place, but a pattern of bad service or a lack of response from the "higher ups" will cause me to change where I shop.

EndoftheTrail BPL Member
PostedJun 30, 2008 at 9:13 am

I'm with Thomas.

Humans aren't perfect… one bad experience usually won't cause me to swear off an entire company. Perhaps ironic, but it's hard to tell if a company is really committed when everything is going well. It's only when there is a mishap that we can tell how far backwards a company will bend to keep its customers happy.

But when there is a pattern, then it's time to shop somewhere else.

David Goodyear BPL Member
PostedJun 30, 2008 at 9:13 am

I adjust my expectations based on what type of store I am going into. If it is a lowest price discount store, they probably don’t have the experienced help that a specialty store has. I have already researched my choices and I am looking at the quality of the merchandise and the fit.
If I am in a specialty store – I bring a boat load of questions and I am looking for a direction in buying gear.

Patience goes a long way. Recently I was trying on packs at a local Moosejaw store, I asked a few questions. The sales associate was friendly knowledgeable, but very stressed. He has just received a 20 box delivery and was getting another 30 boxes from another shipper. I told him to take his time – I had the day off. As I was checking out he thanked me for being kind and patient and upgraded my coupon to 25% off. I didn't expect it, but it made my day.

My point is that You may be right and he may be right, but could the outcome have been different if communication and patience were involved ? Are we too fast to flame a company or a person ? Life is too short – go out and hike.

Dave

PostedJun 30, 2008 at 9:30 am

Sarah – I don't really know what to make of the advertising bit. Do I think they were blatantly being false? No. I do think however it was careless. That was the second time in 2 months their emailed advertising was "false".

David – I exercised a great deal of patience over the past 5 months or so I think. On that day, We were calm, polite and not showing any anger as it was simply expected there would be a hassle. We had gotten used to it. It is difficult to stomach however when a store manager flies off the handle at a customer. Generally it is the other way around. We felt bad for the employee and the position the manager placed her in. It's just sad because while we generally do not need a huge amount of help, sometimes it does wonders to hear the sales persons side of things.

PostedJun 30, 2008 at 9:48 am

I would definitely not shop there anymore given repeated problems and managements pathetic handling – there are many excellent gear shops that don't give you the run around.

Prolite is awesome, you should check them out – I was amazed when I posed a question online to prolite about sizing and they found an employee that is about my same height/weight and had him try on the jacket for size.

PostedJun 30, 2008 at 11:22 am

Prolite is great at answering emails. I noticed that a product I was interested in had disappeared from their site. When I inquired as to whether they had decided not to carry it or it was out-of-stock, they responded quickly to say they were out-of-stock and offered to email me when it came in. And what do you know, about a week later I got an email saying they were back in stock. I was quite happy, but alas, out of money.

Adam

Jason Brinkman BPL Member
PostedJun 30, 2008 at 12:10 pm

What? No BPL/BMW warehouse in Bozeman? What kinda front are these people running? California!?!

Just kidding of course. In any event, a warehouse is not a retail store, so that comment was probably misguided anyway.

Thought I recalled talk of a warehouse in MT at one time, but perhaps that was early on, or perhaps I am just outright mistaken. My sense is that BPL now has a global network of employees, correspondents, suppliers, warehouses?, and obviously members. Their online service is great, so if you haven't gotten into e-commerce, perhaps BPL is the place.

PostedJun 30, 2008 at 4:17 pm

Joe
this comment :
"I recently purchased an Outdoor Research tarp that was advertised online at one price, but in their main store it was another price."
made me want to have a look into the situation. Please take note that I am in Australia and have nothing to do with Northern Lights, but I am an ex-retailer so I sometime see customer complaints from a different angle.
It appears that Northern Lights do own two shops in Bozeman, their "main store", called Northern Lights, and a clearance outlet called "The Barn".
This is not uncommon in retail. For whatever reason having different prices in the two stores is common for businesses of this type. Here in Melbourne for example in the same street we have two outdoor shops each with their "clearance" shop just a few hundred meters away, often with the same stock at different prices, and no, you cannot get the "discounted" stock at the other store.
Franco
The Barn

PostedJun 30, 2008 at 5:05 pm

Franco – I understand and understood about the two different stores. The main issue is that they have a "Member Rewards" program in which unadvertised specials to the public are supposedly only sent to members. The emails come from Northern Lights (not the Barn). Twice items advertised and purported to be on sale at one location, are indeed not. On their website, it's a toss up on what their "sale" prices really mean because they do not tell you what location. Which is why the day I went to get the tarp I offered no resistance, quietly left and drove the 5 miles to the other location to buy the exact same item.

With regards to the socks, just to clarify, the manager agreed that the socks were on sale and said nothing else to the contrary until I decided I wanted a second pair. Had he remained professional, I probably would have just left, went to the other location and bought my socks. Had he attempted to at least compromise in some way, he wouldn't have lost a customer.

PostedJun 30, 2008 at 7:20 pm

Great customer service,products and prices (whether on sale or not). Period. Can't go wrong with them. I've ordered (on-line) several times, and the staff are very helpful, knowledgeable and prompt at answering questions/dealing with problems, of which I've only had one, which was not their fault.

PostedJun 30, 2008 at 7:36 pm

Joe
We had miscommunication problems when the internet section mailed out a special and forgot to tell anyone else. It only happened two or three times over several years but it was not good enough. However we bent over backwards to then pacify the customers, most of them becoming even more regular patrons. In you case I would have taken you out for a coffee and a chat because I could have turned you (as I have with some of my customers) into a walking taking ad for the store and learned something in the process. (much cheaper and more rewarding then a paid "customer survey" )
I understand now that your case could be incompetence on their part but possibly "bait advertising" , IE they were prepared to use a loss leader item to get you in but did not really want to sell it to you. A "one per customer" disclaimer is fair enough, but definitely a no-no if not made clear. By the way that tactic is illegal here in Australia and obviously unethical everywhere else.
Yes, I did notice that the web site does not seem to differentiate between the two stores.
I have just finished an article for a trade magazine about making the buying experience fun, keeping in mind on-line sales and the competition the last thing shops should do is making shopping a chore or even a negative experience.
Shop elsewhere, someone deserves your patronage.
Franco
BTW, I used to search the net for comments about our shop, so if anyone at Northern Lights is reading this, do something about it…

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