How much bigger do you buy your shoes?

[Owen E. Rasmussen]

My girlfriend and I are both looking at some trail runners. Both of us seem to like the way that the Montrail Hardrock fits. The question is, how much bigger than our normal size should we buy them? i know that hiking will cause feet to swell. How much bigger do you buy your shoes?

and if you feel, any other suggestions for footwear to try?

[Franco Darioli]

There is no such thing as "my size"
Generally the idea is to walk around for a couple of hours before you try your runners/boots on, and wear the type of socks you intend to use. Size depends on the type of last (foot shaped wood/plastic thingo) that a manufacturer is using, so you need to try them on. The width and arch length makes the difference.
Franco
BTW, I use 41/42 and 43…..

[Owen E. Rasmussen]

i thought it was standard practice to buy hiking shoes/boots a little bigger due to swelling on the trail? maybe that's where i'm getting thrown here. it's easy to find a shoe that fits my feet in the now, but i thought i had to account for the future.

[CW]

I usually wear a half to a full size larger.

[Jason Shaffer]

I wear the Hardrock, men's 9 1/2 wide, even though my measured foot size is between 8 and 8 1/2 if I've been off the trail for awhile. Montrails seem to run small by half a size anyway.

Once you've found a size that eliminates friction, I'd go up 1/2 size. Maybe a full size if big miles and/or hot weather are in your immediate future – just watch out for any tendency for the bottom of your foot to slide around during a normal stride.

[t.darrah]

I use Montrail Hardrocks and I size up a 1/2 size from my normal running shoe size of 9 1/2 to a size 10. This has worked well with both the 2007 model, that can still be found at closeout prices, and also with the 2008 model. I've had no foot issues even during long high milage days in challenging terrain.

[Ryan Krause]

What I do is go hiking first then go to the store and try on shoes since your feet will be swollen then.

If you have to buy online or the store is a long ways away, I suppose you could buy a few sizes and throw them in the car and try them on back at the car after the hike and see what feels best and then return the others. Bringing a blanket or something to lay down on the ground next to the car probably would be a good idea so you don't get them dirty so they are returnable.

[Franco Darioli]

I'll try again.
The commonest misconception with shoes is that size 8 is the same in every shoe made by any manufacturer. In reality 8 is the length of the shoe ( and even that is not accurate) not the volume or a three-dimensional size (as with a last) . So if you have wide/narrow feet, a short or long arch, wide or narrow toes, bunions,corns whatever… that "size" means nothing at all.
Just think of your normal city shoes, ever noticed that in the same "size" some are more comfortable than others ? Now multiply the comfort/discomfort for many miles on uneven ground with a load on your shoulder and you will appreciate having tried the shoes on for fit rather than size.
Franco

[Michael Davis]

Montrail Hardrocks seem to be very popular here and I will add to that popularity. I actually have 3 different Hardrock sizes. I wear my normal shoe size, 10.5, with the thinnest version of Smartwool Adrenaline socks, when I'm hiking in flat, easy ground like my home in Florida.

In summer, with the thin socks, but in mountainous terrain, I size up to the size 11.0. This gives me room for my feet to swell due to the rough ground with rocks and roots, as well as room for my toes not to jam on the downhills. This works great at my vacation home in the White Mountains of New Hampshire and also my trip last month to the Grand Canyon.

In winter in New England, I go all the way to size 11.5 with very thick wool socks and Rocky Gore-tex socks. Keeps me warm and toasty while still lightweight.

So, there's not one answer for me. It all depends on the conditions in which I hike.

[Stumphges]

The idea that foot swelling that occurs after standing or walking all day leads to significant changes in foot size or volume is incorrect. This myth, in an academic paper I'm too lazy to look for now, was recently challenged in a convincing manner.

That said, normal activity induced swelling may result in some noticeable change in foot volume, but this is in volume, not length. In my opinion it is not advisable to 'size up', ever, for the following reason:

Regardless of changes in volume, the foot will not change in length. The most important fit characteristic of a shoe is the length of the shoe from the heel to the widest part of the forefoot – which corresponds to the length of the foot from the heel to the base of the big toe. If the shoe is too large, the shoe will actually pull the base of the big toe forward(the ball of the foot under the big toe) which has undesirable biomechanical consequences – namely hyperpronation and resultant arch fatigue and strain.

A better strategy is to purchase shoes with a wide, more square and deeper toe box, which will allow the toes and ball of the foot to expand. This is a good thing even if your feet aren't swollen, as feet expand, or should expand, in this area with each step. Swelling of the foot behind the ball of the foot can easily be accommodated by loosening your laces.

Of course, earlier comments about sizes differing between brands and models is clearly true – there's quite a lot of variation. Comfort while trying on is a good way to go, as is checking with your thumb that the base of the big toe (the big 'knuckle' where your big toe meets your foot) sits at the widest part of the shoe whilst on your foot. (now, if you have long toes, some models may fit the length of your arch, but be too short for your toes, in which case you'll have to choose a model with a longer toe box.)

For mail order purchases, customer reviews and reports noting 'Montrails usually run one size too small' are generally pretty accurate and a good basis for starting, in my experience. The webstore Zappos.com has a super return policy that allows you to order two or three different sizes and send the ones that don't fit back.

I've never worn Montrails, though I've tried them on. Most of their models do have wider, deeper toe boxes, so should be a good choice if you're concerned with trail induced foot swelling.

[David Lewis]

half size larger (US / Canada sizing)

[Frank Ramos]

>That said, normal activity induced swelling may result in some noticeable change in foot volume, but this is in volume, not length

My understanding is that some people arches collapse due to muscle weakness, and this is what causes a change in length. Whereas if you have healthy feet with strong muscles (both in the foot itself and in the muscles of the lower leg which support the arch), there should be very little change in either volume or length. So if your feet are currently expanding, then the solution is to strengthen the muscles rather than compensating with larger shoes.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I buy my backpacking boots one size wider to accomodate my swelling feet after two days on the trail.

I learned this the hard way years ago on the AT when I got blisters between EVERY toe! For 80 of the 100 miles I endured wall-to-wall foot pain. It only hurt when I stopped walking. (Seriously)

Eric
P.S Oh yeah, I buy Danner boots B/C they come in many widths for each size. Plus they are amazingly well made (in the USA).

[Roger Caffin]

> The idea that foot swelling that occurs after standing or walking all day leads to significant changes in foot size or volume is incorrect. This myth, in an academic paper I'm too lazy to look for now, was recently challenged in a convincing manner.

I have seen many academic papers saying all sorts of things. Some have created well-known urban myths in their own right. But that does NOT mean the paper is right – some have been appallingly wrong in fact. In this case I suspect that either the authors do not have any idea what they were talking about, OR your description of the paper is incorrect. Far too many walkers have far too much experience with their feet swelling up in the field for this to be a myth.

Now, I can agree that the length of the foot won't change a lot very quickly, but I know from my own personal experience that the width and volume can change – significantly.

For what it is worth, over the last 15 – 20 years my feet have gone from about size 7.5 to size 9, due to the amount of walking I am doing. So even the length can change over time- just not so fast.

> In my opinion it is not advisable to 'size up', ever, for the following reason:
The reason you have given really only applies to major changes in size. Fair enough. But it is very common for walkers to go up half a size for winter footwear in order to wear a thick sock and to avoid constricting the foot. That reduces the blood flow through the feet, which is bad news in the cold! You should read Will Rietveld's BPL article on wearing joggers in the snow for more information on this.

> A better strategy is to purchase shoes with a wide, more square and deeper toe box, which will allow the toes and ball of the foot to expand. This is a good thing even if your feet aren't swollen, as feet expand, or should expand, in this area with each step. Swelling of the foot behind the ball of the foot can easily be accommodated by loosening your laces.
Now here I have to agree 100% with you. Narrow shoes can lead to crippling pain. My personal opinion (and experience) is that most foot problems can be substantially eliminated by increasing the width of the shoe.

An old friend of mine owned and ran a gear shop for half his life. His comment was that it is well-known in the shoe trade that some men and most women buy shoes which are too small and especially too narrow for their feet. They put fashion over function. You have only to look in the women's mags to see all the ads for massage shoes and foot baths to appreciate the extent of this problem.

Cheers
Roger Caffin

[R K]

Personally about a half size depending on the shoe. As has been mention already, there are lots of factors here but consider that if you buy a shoe that is too large (your heel slips out of the back more than 1/4 to 1/2 inch while walking uphill), you could end up with blisters on the back of your heels.

P.S. The Montrail Hardrocks seemed to run half to a full size smaller for most people I saw try them on. I've said it before and I'll say it again; One shoe that seems to fit a really wide range of people is the Salomon XA Comp 3. For these buy a half size larger than you street shoe.

[Owen E. Rasmussen]

Thanks for all of the excellent information and feedback. I purchased size 12 (i run in size 11) and several hours later i drove out PA (i'm from cleveland) and prepared for an 11 mile hike the next day. In the morning, we did a 7 mile trail and it was very wet, so i wore a pair of seal skin socks as well as a pair of ultralight smartwool mini crews, and it worked great. Later in the day, it was dry and i took off the seal skins, and the shoes still felt great.

In case anyone in the future looks up this post, i'll give you my thought process on purchasing these. I noted right off the bat that i would indeed be wearing at least slightly thicker socks and that there may be an instance in which two pairs are worn. I also took to note that the Montrails seemed to run small (thanks for the advice). I had tried on a 2007 model 11.5 at one store and felt that i at least wanted to see how a 12 fit, but they didn't have it. So i went to another store and tried on the 2008 11.5 and 12. Suprisingly, the 12 was about a half a size larger. (joke). seriously, having bought hiking footwear before, i was keen to look for two things, the first was how secure the heel cup was and the second was the room in the toe box. the size 12 still remainded quite snug around my feet. they obviously had enough room in the toe box. I went over to the slant board they had at the store and tested to see how they felt while i was standing on a 45* angle. my heel still stayed in place, and my toes didnt crush. so i bought them, and after hike number one, i can say that i'm very satisfied.

Owen

[Eric Blumensaadt]

So Roger, you ARE saying that foot swelling DOES occur. Right? Because if you are saying it's a myth I couldn't disagree more.

Eric

[michelle Annett]

"For what it is worth, over the last 15 – 20 years my feet have gone from about size 7.5 to size 9, due to the amount of walking I am doing. So even the length can change over time- just not so fast."

i have already made the mistake on shoes.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Eric

> So Roger, you ARE saying that foot swelling DOES occur. Right?
ABSOLUTELY! Feet swell, like all other muscles, with exercise.

My best guess is that my feet swell about 1 Euro size or 1/2 a US size after one day walking.

But in addition, my feet are still growing in size over all, even though I am 62. Sure, some of that may be due to the exercise, but my understanding is that feet and noses keep growing all your life!

Fwiiw: I am able to spend the day either barefoot or in thongs (flip-flops) (I work at home). My feet are now at least an EEEE width. I suspect being barefoot has allowed the width of my feet to expand to a more natural shape, after some years spent in leather bondage.

Cheers

[Author]

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