Ray Jardine closes shop

[gdinero senior]

I agree. I’ve been posting as anonymous using “G$” as my signoff, but now I’ll just use this account for forum use.

[J R]

This forum is shockingly free of “trolling”. Maybe its just the size of the community.. I dunno… but historically, forums that allow for purely anonymous posting run rampant with trolls, while forums that have a “real name rule” tend to be much more civil, honest, and forthright. Though there is no need to make that info public, I do agree that using the real name, as verified by credit cards, as your “user name”, can be offputting. However… even in forums where you can use ONLY a “handle”, you can still follow who says what. Granted, the truely dedicated can just make a 2nd account, but on the whole, user nicks allow for people to be held accountable, without posts or viewpoints being attached to a legal name.

As it sits now, you basically have 2 groups. Those who have their names posted, and those who post “anonymously”.. And that person can be 1, or a dozen, or 100 different people. And thats a problem in my book. Its not even a way to be anonymous, its a way to post things without being called to task on it in anyway. For that matter, I could sit and argue with myself on a thread and no one would be the wiser. Its not private, its cowardly.

On the issue of Google… try googling yourself. Doing a search for my name resulted in over 10 pages before I found a passing reference to me, rather than the hundreds of people who share my name. Over 15 before I found something written by me… and it wasnt on BPL. Putting it in quote marks and its still 7 pages til I show up.

My recommendation would be to update the forum software – significantly. There are tens, if not hundreds, of software apps that work better (or, at least allow for easy hyperlinking, user profiles, whatever), are more secure, and with a little skill in coding, can be worked into the existing code. phpBB, yaBB, invisionboard, vB… and thats just off the top of my head.

As for the original topic, I got no beef with Ray. He has his quirks… everyone does.

[Anonymous]

I guess I was under the mistaken assumption that everyone is as fascinated by the ins and outs of Ray Jardine’s life as me, in which case everyone would know the sort of guy Ray is–namely, a guy who deserves every bit of rudeness thrown at him. But since that appears not to be the case, here’s the story of the Golite controvery, by the people concerned:

PDF file, details of the controvery

Boring corporate- speak description of the Golite controversy

And no, I don’t work for Golite.

If you do a google search, you’ll also find out about Ray’s run-ins in the past with ALDHA, an organization he founded and then tried to destroy because people wouldn’t agree with all his opinions. And you’ll also learn about the various times he threatened lawsuits because people were joking on forums about his corn pasta and umbrella ideas. The rationale for these lawsuits was that the joking was hurting sales of Beyond Backpacking by making Ray look like a jerk. Of course, in most people’s books, a guy who threatens a lawsuit is a helluva lot more of a jerk than a guy who likes corn pasta, but then nobody ever said Ray thinks like everyone else!

[kevin davidson]

V is for vendetta. This is all very old news—tell us something we don’t already know.

[J R]

The GoLite thing is GoLites business.

Since your so oddly drawn to the “ins and outs” of the mans life, could you please provide some links to the things you cited? Id be especially interested in the corn pasta posts. (I have no interest in digging through thousands of links and posts that would be spewed up on a google search, but you said yourself that your “fascinated” by the man, maybe you know where to look?)

[Anonymous]

I don’t have any news about Ray. But if anyone else does, I’d be fascinated to hear!

And no, I don’t really have a vendetta with Ray. I bought from his company in the past, after all, and I’d buy from him again in the future if he doesn’t go out of business. My real beef is with the groupies (aka ray-bots). Are there really that many stupid sheep looking for a shepherd in this world?

[Anonymous]

I have no interest in digging through thousands of links and posts that would be spewed up on a google search, but you said yourself that your “fascinated” by the man, maybe you know where to look?)

I would have provided those links along with the Golite links, but I don’t feel like digging through the google listing myself. It was only by chance that I found the Golite listings, incidentally. I hadn’t read them before. But I’m glad I found them!

[Bill Fornshell]

To archeopteryx or what ever and who ever you are??

I am a little embarrass that the really good stuff didn’t show up at Google. Google isn’t very good. I can also tell you that there are 2 different Bill Fornshell’s. One is my cousin. I wondered where he was. Thanks.

The name that shows up with my “Posts” is not my legal name. I also guess the fact that I mentioned some kind of medical problem has caused you to worry that I may have said something that I should have keep a secret. I am 65, oh my now the world knows how old I am. I guess AARP will be after me now.

Hello folks my name is Bill and I am addicted….to Super Ultra Light Backpacking Gear. Oh my now everyone knows that.

And one or more of my pictures shows one of my cats, oh no now everyone knows I have one or 12 cats.

When I was 19 I got a job that required a government security clearance. From that point on my life became public record. I had a sec. clearance till I retired 34 years later. As for my medical condition I have had cancer more than once. Gee do teeth cleaning count against me also. 10 years ago I had cancer and I expect my medical records were out were anyone could see them from then on. Do I care, no. Do I think it is right, no. My medical coverage is covered till I die and that can’t change. I am retired, I don’t work and really don’t need to work. I could really care less and don’t really expect to ever have a “real” type job again. I don’t expect to have a “future employer” but If I ever had a real type job anytime during the rest of my life it would be doing something I really liked and the selection would probability be more me picking the boss than it would be the boss picking me.

Back to cancer. I talk about my cancer and my successful treatment because I want people to know that lots of people beat cancer and get back to normal or about normal lives. I have had a lot of friends afraid to even visit me because they were afraid of how I would look and they wouldn’t know what to say. Lots of people are so scared of the word cancer. I am not saying people don’t die from cancer but lots of people also die in car accidents. I have been blessed or I have been lucky, I hope I have been blessed. Oh no, are we still allowed to say something like that.

[kevin davidson]

65? You have the energy and creativity of a 25 year old.

[archeopteryx .]

The name that shows up with my “Posts” is not my legal name. I also guess the fact that I mentioned some kind of medical problem has caused you to worry that I may have said something that I should have keep a secret.

I understand your response, but I hope that my point wasn’t missed. My subscriber account does have my legal name on it, and in my personal situation, if I had written that post, I wouldn’t feel comfortable with it available on the public internet with my full name just to the left. If you feel that the last part of my post was disrespectful or even unpersuasive I will edit it out.

[paul johnson]

a little off topic, but…

didn’t know you could create a second account. just curious, how is this done? at what point in the acount creation process is a different name entered?

for my part, i’m not going to to do this. i have enough trouble keeping track of what i wrote as me, let alone keeping track of two me’s…er…i mean two egos…er…me and an alias. i couldn’t keep them straight. as kevin has joked, imagine if there were two “me’s” writing long-winded posts. help! even, i couldn’t put up with two of me.

oh…also, just in case it makes any diff. to anyone, i thought that the 2nd Anon. was not the same individual as the 1st Anon – solely based upon the tone of the two posts. was i mistaken? my comments were addressed to the 2nd Anon post. just wanted to clarify

[archeopteryx .]

didn’t know you could create a second account. just curious, how is this done? at what point in the acount creation process is a different name entered?

If you are currently logged in, click the “LOGOUT” link in the gray bar near the top of the page.

Click the “LOGIN or CREATE A NEW ACCOUNT” link in the gray bar.

Click the “New Visitors: Create a new account” link in the yellow login box.

[paul johnson]

A.,

oh…interesting. i’m permanently logged in on my laptop. very clear instructions. prob. never gonna’ use it – couldn’t pull it off anyways. how many “regulars” wouldn’t recognize the writing style even with a diff name?!!

thank you very much . i’m going to make a note of the procedure. take care.

oh…thanks for participating in the Forums. you have your reasons for not using your name. so be it. in my experience, in these Forums you don’t have to worry about using your name . perhaps a bit naive of me??? i’ve been “spanked” for some posts, but the frequent participants here are all really rather civilized individuals – seems like they’d make fine neighbors. nothing to fear from them. oh well…my $0.02. thanks again for the info.

[Alan Amaya]

Oops. I posted with the wrong accountt. Please see below.

[archeopteryx .]

I’m not worried about the regulars. If you look at my original post, you’ll see that I wouldn’t mind if my name were visible to registered users (or even if I were reachable via email, a feature present on many other boards). I’m mostly not wanting search engines to associate my full name with every post. I find that it makes the feeling of using a message board much less conversational. It’s like if everything I wrote on message boards were published in a book for the general public to critique as some were to Ray Jardine in this thread.

[paul johnson]

no need for me to look. now that you mention it, i do recall having recently read that as i’ve followed the posts in this Thread. sorry, my memory is not so good any longer. IMHO, given the nature of the posts, you have a very wise reason for using the alias.

[David Lewis]

I have been out of the loop on this thread, so I’m sorry if this has already been brought up… but what I would add to the anon discussion is that really, we are all anonymous online. Just create a BPL account with the name Guy Incognito and be off to the races. It’s actually extremely (I mean extremely!!!) rare to see an online forum where people use their real names. So BPL is really the exception to the rule. So it’s really just in the context of this forum than an anon person bashing someone stands out. Elsewhere, it would barely be noticed. That’s a GOOD thing though!!!… i.e… that this forum is not like most… BPL’s users maintain a very civil and on-topic discourse.

[Dale Wambaugh]

Jardine may suffer from depression or a bipolar disorder — perhaps a little kinder view than “half nuts.”

I found many of his concepts useful and enlightening (bad pun), and he did get it written down— regardless if he was the originator of the concepts. Some of the things that raised my eyebrows were his ventures into nutrition and phobias of eating in restuarants. I had a lot of contact with the health food industry in the 1970’s and I heard echos the same pseudo-science and wild-eyed talk. It was a little suprising to hear a trained engineer go off that way, but I guess it is physics vs. biology — weight and materials are more his discipline.

In all my take from his book, the concept of getting down to the basics was the real core of the ultralight philosophy. The concept that really struck me was that we are not in a struggle or fight with nature, but that we live within it. We do not need to fear nature as we have for centuries— we should have enough understanding of the environment to be free of the fears and superstitions we have of wilderness travel. The old pioneering concepts of man vs. nature goad us into wanting armor for clothing and shelter, rather than good, simple, efficient products that will keep us comfortable and able to enjoy the experience of being outdoors.

[Bernd Dr. Fischel]

I don’t know the man, only from the internet, I know people who have bought products from him here in Germany and are pleased with them. Ray’s ideas have inspired us, we must admit. Personally I like the guy very much, much like me ;-) Oddly enough I have had thoughts why Ray (+ Jenny?) may be quitting their business. First many stores here in Germany use the trick, “we are closing”,so that the customers buy now (and not later), but the store never actually closes. In fact a little bit against the law here in Germany but the trick is used all the time. The store finally closes only to reopen again under a new name, with same owner. Maybe Ray is using this sales trick? I hope he is not offened if he reads my post! Anyway I wish him and Jenny all the best for the future!
take care,
Bernd & Barbie (happy trails..!)
http://www.internetgenie.de

[Aaron Sorensen]

Why don’t we just let Ray be bitter and not stoop to his level by being bitter about it our selves; besides if you really have any hatered toward his than it seems that you must have cherished him at some time and know his acquisitions that he talks about is hurting you deep down inside and you need to vent by writing these messages in hope that he may read it and it just might hurt him as much as it hurt you. Go cry to your mother.
I have been staying on top of everything that’s been going on with Ray and it seems that posts like some of these is what led him to were he stands in the first place. Nothing that Ray has said has taken anything away from what he has done and what ever he his given to us through his experiences. Probably half of us got into lite weight hiking some way or another through him. If you and I do not agree with 10% of what he has to say that still makes 90% of what he has given us beneficial. Heck even if I get 10% out of some thing almost useless I have still gained from that experience.
It seems that since technology has caught up and passed Rays beliefs that we have to disregard all what he has done. I first read BB about 3 years ago and the principles (which are in most cases pretty amazing) are what got me in to lite weight hiking.
Thank’s Ray!!!

[Tony Burnett]

I can’t reach http://www.ray-way.com or http://www.rayjardine.com anymore. Wow! How’s that for slaming the door shut?

[Dondo .]

The site is back up. Looks like the Jardines are considering selling the business.

[Tony Burnett]

It down most of the day. Weird. Silly computers…

[Anonymous]

Re: “stealing” ideas vs. improving them. Remember that it was not Ray who originated the concept of cams for use as rock climbing protection. IIRC Abakalov (sp?) was an early pioneer, then the Lowe brothers. IIRC the Lowes fabricated the first practical, usable cam unit. Ray refined the design, licensed it to Wild Country, and became rich from it. Good for him, I say, but for him to turn around and whine about stolen ideas is profoundly hypocritical.

I too think his book was a good read and helped me make the leap to lighter-weight backpacking. But the guy is a nut.

[brian stein]

THe problem with BB I think goes beyond ‘tone. Reading it I whipped through the 1st part and thought OK this is polemic and he has some non-mainstream ideas on ‘connection so lighten up and take from his experience. Then you get into the 2nd part and the trouble starts: its not just the unusual ideas about nutrition, its the just plain wrong that starts to grate eg crystals of vitamins from synthetic and natural sources are different under microscope (and many more). So when I read further Im left wondering… does this guy actually know what he is talking about? It is this aspect of the book that would make me loathe to recommend it to anyone interested in UL: this website is I think a far better look at the area for someone new to it.

[Author]

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