lightest technique to improve water taste?

Here's the problem as I see it:

(1) Filters — any light and simple one can block the big stuff like protozoa, but they need to be much more intricate (read heavier) to block the small things like bacteria. And they would also be too hard to suck!

(2) Chemicals OTOH can easily kill the tiny stuff (viruses, bacteria) in 15 minutes but need much more time (30 minutes to 4 hours depending on water temp) to kill the bigger stuff like protozoa (giardia, crypto, etc.).

So for me, it makes sense to combine the two — let chemicals kill the tiny stuff first — which will allow the use of any small, simple and light filter to block the bigger stuff and improve water clarity and taste:

1. Scoop water into bladder.
2. Treat with Micropur for 15 minutes.
3. Filter through a small/simple filter like Frontier Pro (weighs just 2 oz.) — either as inline or as a drinking straw when on the trail — or optionally as gravity feed at camp when dealing with bigger volume.

Ben,

Thanks for the advice. Do you think 15 minutes with MicroPur is really sufficient for bacteria?

How exactly would you rig the AquaMira for gravity filtration? I prefer to gravity filter from a "dirty" camp bag, such as my 4L Platypus big zip bag, directly into my Platypus 3L hydration bag. So…I just need a screw-on attachment with tube to go from the "dirty" bag to the AquaMira filter, and then tubing to go from the AquaMira to my hydration bladder, right?

It seems the Platypus Clean Stream already has the system set up this way–but no carbon element, alas.

David:

15 minutes is fine for bacteria (and viruses if they are prsent). It's protozoa such as giardia or crypto that require longer time — if you are relying on chemicals alone to do all the work.

But if you are going to use chemicals like Micropur to kill bacteria/viruses, then you don't need heavy/intricate filters with 0.2 pore size! All you need is an el cheapo, small and simple thing like Frontier Pro (3.0 micron pore size) to block the remaining bigger and harder to kill stuff like protozoa.

Yanking off the rubber bite vlave, the Frontier Pro actually has a "nipple" at both ends — so you can easily integrate it into the hydration tube that connects dirty bladder with clean bladder. As above, drop the Micropur into the dirty bladder — let the water sit for 15 minutes — then commence gravity filtering.

If you using a Frontier Pro and Micropur or other purification tablet type product, could you use the Frontier on multiple trips? My trips mainly last a few days, so say a couple gallons of water a day, that's only about 6 gallons a trip.

So my filter should be good for at least 7-8 different trips, right?

Ben,

Sounds like the AquaMira + MicroPur combo is a win-win situation. Is the thing disposable, though? How do you know when it is ready to toss?

Which Platy bag would YOU recommend if you were to set this up as a gravity filtration system?

(This is my current "dirty" bag, 4L):
http://www.platypushydration.com/product_detail.aspx?ProdID=37

Downside to this one is that the handles are on the top so you couldn't hang it.

Would you attach a regular hydration tube and remove the bit valve for attachment to the Frontier Pro?

Again, I suppose I could just buy the Platy Clean Stream, but I'm trying to avoid buying the whole kit just for the bag.

thanks
David

Where can you get the Aquamira Frontier Pro replacement filters?

The Frontier Pro comes with 3 "sponge" prefilters — but the main body itself is not replaceable — so basically a cheap, simple and lightweight 'throwaway' filter. I don't believe there is any real way of knowing "for sure" when it's time for a new one — same as with most other filters — but I think the carbon loses its effect first — so if you start to taste any funky taste — or the taste of your own chlorine dioxide — then it's definitely time to replace. AquaMira's claim of 50 gallons lifetime is probably another good guideline to go by.

As for which Platypus to use as "dirty bladder" — methinks any Platy will work — just depending on your own camp needs. I much prefer the lighter, no fuss Platypus water bottle over the fancier but also much heavier "Big Zip". It's easy to pound two grommets to the bottom of the Platy and string a cord through for easy hanging.

Here's what I would do:

1. Scoop water with an old 1L Platy with the top lobbed off (0.8 oz)
2. Pour through a Platy bottle cap prefilter into say a 3L "dirty bladder". (1.5 oz)
3. Treat with Micropur and wait 15 or so minutes
4. Connect to hydration tube/gravity filter and commence filtering. (2oz)

Consider the hydration tube and clean bladder to be part of your overall water system rather than filtering system… then total weight for filter system would be around 4oz or so.

Hope this helps.

Their chief scientists look well seasoned to me.

Triton M series:
http://www.prismedical.com/which.html
http://www.equipped.org/ORSummer2007.htm

Ben,

Sorry, I'm a bit slow. So, you'll use one of these (with the bite valve removed) to connect your 3L "dirty bladder" to the Frontier Pro:

http://www.platypushydration.com/product_detail.aspx?ProdID=19

and then will the "clean" side of the Frontier Pro screw directly onto my "clean" Platy hydration reservoir or will I need another one of the drink tubes to connect it?

thanks,
David

PS–What kind of grommets would you use to rig your 3L Platy for hanging? (link?)

No, the threaded side of the Frontier Pro is on the intake. So:

Dirty bladder –> threaded onto Frontier Pro –> hydration tube –> clean bladder

As for grommets, REI and others carry them.

I'd recommend using the big-pore filter 1st, and then using the chemical treatment 2nd rather than the other way around. Most of the small baddies attaches themselves to the bigger baddies or silt, etc – so by filtering those big particles out first, your chemicals don't have as much to kill and your chance of getting a concentration high enough to make you sick is reduced.

I'd recommend using the big-pore filter 1st, and then using the chemical treatment 2nd rather than the other way around. Most of the small baddies attaches themselves to the bigger baddies or silt, etc – so by filtering those big particles out first, your chemicals don't have as much to kill and your chance of getting a concentration of baddies high enough to make you sick is reduced.

John:

I had thought about this — some light, quick and easy way to filter out stuff — then let chemicals or UV do their thing.

But I keep coming back to this: in lieu of "scoop and go" — if you opt to filter first, then you are back to pump filters again. This means adding weight and pumping time to the equation — in addition to the chemical's treatment time. Not saying it's a show stopper or anything — plenty of people use pump filters. But — for those who can't stand the taste of chemicals (e.g. chlorine dioxide) — using chemicals as the final stage still leaves a bad taste.

So is the Frontier Pro then recyclable? I guess I will just have to keep using the drops, my bandana and boiling then.

Check out Sawyer's new SP135 inline gravity filter at 4.5oz dry and .02 microns! This filter outperforms the new Platy filter by far and it's actually available right now.

It is guaranteed for life, requires no maintenance, and cleans by a simply back flush.

I just received mine. I ordered it from Walmart.com. Yes, Walmart! $69.00 delivered to a store near you.

I'm planning to use this as a stand alone gravity feed and or in combination with the inline Seychelle, which I purchased from Ben last month, depending upon circumstance. I sold my Steripen and feel that this set up should be both more effective and more versatile. At .02 microns it also should be the best choice for removing both virus and bacteria.

You might check out the Sawyer SP125 and SP194 filters as well. Sawyer says they have a soft canteen bottle very similar to to the Platy water bottle that will accept this filter INSIDE it, but to date I have not been able to actually locate and examine one. If anyone has information about this bottle, I'd appreciate hearing from you.

So what do you think think?
Peter

Ben,

Do you think the lack of tubing between the dirty bladder and the Frontier Pro will adversely affect the pressure needed for the water to push through the filter? In other words, without the tubing ABOVE the filter, the pressure is reduced (P = F / A) due to the increased area.

I hope I'm making sense here.

Wow, the SP135 looks almost too good to be true.

Are there any in-depth reviews for this yet?

The box says "purifier".
Does that mean it has actually passed the EPA’s Guide Standard and Protocol for Microbiological Purifiers, or just that they think it would pass if tested?

Of course, walmart.com shows them out of stock.
Maybe I'll run down to the local Walmart and see if they have any…

No, as long as the dirty bladder is up top and water is flowing down unobstructed.

Ben, you mentioned prefiltering the water BEFORE you treat with MicroPur. Maybe this would solve the problem John is talking about. Can you describe your prefilter setup?

thanks
David

Prefiltering with a very fine mesh coffee filter will only remove visible particulates — it won’t do much beyond that — just like a paper coffee filter won’t give you clear coffee.

Click here for my “bottle cap” pre filter.

Wait–I just thought of this–won't the chlorine dioxide pass THROUGH the Frontier Pro? Does anyone know if the diameter of chlorine dioxide exceeds that of the pore size in the filter? If so, then it seems you would be tasting the chemicals after all.

Someone allay my fears please.

David:

You are forgetting the 15-minute treatment time. Once you drop in the Micropur (or Aqua Mira) tablet(s) — they bubble up immediately like laid-back Alka-Setzers. Let the water sit in the "dirty" bladder for at least 15 minutes. Then hang it upside down and commence filtering.

It is the carbon element in the Frontier Pro that adsorbs any remaining chemicals and thus removes the "swimming pool" taste — as well as other potentially foul taste and impurities in the water.

Ben,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I like your set up.
I used to use the MSR miniworks ceramic-element pump (16oz) which I found incredibly tedious and heavy, so Chlorine dioxide treatments were a revelation when I first learned about them.

Just to clarify my own thinking:
Your primary treatment comes from the chemicals, so the Frontier Pro is really an auxillary component to the system. Not required but improves taste, provides an extra layer of security (especially for that 10-15% of the time when the only availble water is truly skanky), and allows for shorter contact times with the chemicals (15 minutes as opposed to 4 hours).

If one uses a gravity fed filter as their primary treatment, a ULA Amigo, MSR Hyperflow, Sawyer, et al. would be required. However, the Frontier Pro is cheaper, lighter, and, I'm guessing, the flow rate is much faster.

I think it's the system I'm going to adopt for my July trips.

Best,
Dan

From the Katadyn website – the MicroPur AntiChlorine blurb …

"Neutralises chlorine and restores the natural taste of water. Also suitable for preparing drinks with chlorinated tap water (e.g. isotonic drinks). Can also be used as a final step of Micropur Forte to improve taste."

"Technology: Sodium thiosulphate eliminates the taste of chlorine (transforms chlorine into table salt = NaCl)"

Has anyone tried this product?

Daniel — You summed it up exactly. Hope it works for you.

Greg — I've seen that blurb but haven't seen the taste neutralizer sold anyhwere. Maybe our European hikers will know more…