Soft Shell advice

[Jean-Philippe Cyr]

Hi,

I’m currently looking for a soft shell for hiking and snowshoeing. So really an all around softshell.

I look at the Cloudveil Prospector. Look great for summer and early fall hiking, but probably not warm enought for snowshoeing.

An another choice is the Arc’Teryx Gamma MX Hoody.

Any recommandations or suggestions is appreciated.

Thanks.

[david fausnight]

Are you looking for a jacket with or without a hood? The Patagonia Ready Mix Jacket is a good hooded option, I love mine. Their Figure 4 jacket might be a good option if you dont want a hood. They both weight 15oz and cost $200 and $180 respectively. I have also enjoyed my Marmot softshell very much. I believe it s an older version of the Atv jacket. The current model (hoodless) costs $170 and weights 21oz. I have seen last years colors on sale for $99 at the REI near my home in Houston. I checked their website but didnt see it there. Good luck with your search, hope this helps.

[Mark Verber]

I would agree that the prospector is too light for snowshoeing.

If you run hot I would look for one of the minimally insulated but reasonable wind protective materials like patagonia ready mix, patagonia figure 4, jackets made from pentex equilibrium stretch (you might be able to find the REI Pyrn for less than $50 on clearance racks), maybe powershield light, maybe scholler dryskin. If you tend to be a bit cold blooded then I would also consider Scholler Dryskin, standard Powershield.

The following is a dump of my experiences with softshells:

A summary of my experiences listing material and the shells I have had personal experience with. Temp range is my comfort range when engaged in aerobic activities going from lightest to heaviest:

Inertia (Cloudveil Prospector) So far seems like a good action shirt when I am moving fast (replacing wind shirt / base layer) in still or light wind conditions between 35-55F, and usable in warmer weather. Wind resistances seems about the same as my supplex shirt. The lack of insulation and wind permeability helps prevent overheating is moderate weather. If the wind is blowing hard wouldn’t use it below around 40F because I would be too chilled. I have been pretty impressed with water resistance for such a light shell. Light drizzle rolls right off. Starts leaking in a heavy rain after 30-60 minutes. More water resistant and durable is better than my unlined wildshirt. [Appropriate for moderate spring, alpine summer and fall conditions]

Schoeller Dynamic (Cloudveil Veiled Peak & Arc’Teryx hybrid Alpha Comp) is decent in cool weather when facing abrasive conditions… but for general use, I find that the optimal comfort range is smaller than other soft shells. Dynamic started leaking in less than 20 minutes during a hard rain storm. I overheat in conditions that would be OK in an unlined wind shirt, and find myself feeling chilled at approx the same time as a wind shirt. The Alpha Comp is a beautiful jacket which is a bit more protective thans to the Gore-Tex XCR yoke and outer arms. [Spring skiing over light insulation or heavy base, and moderate weather climbing]

Unspecified Patagonia material (Ready Mix, Figure 4) I haven’t used any of these jackets but they seem to provide approx the same insulation as Inertia (not much so they should be cool) while being slightly more wind, and significantly more water protective. Seems like a really nice material. [Year round use if used with insulation or heavy base in colder weather]

Pertex Equilibrium (REI Pyrn Jacket) More weather resistant than Inertia, a bit less stretchy than Inertia and is not quite as soft against the skin. In cool weather is likely to be a better choice than Inertia, but in warmer weather Inertia fairs better thanks to higher air permeability. [Appropriate for spring and fall conditions, high output aerobic activity in the winter]

Nextec EPIC (Patagonia Essenshell) is a good wind shell in cold to cool weather. Layered over a wicking base layer (with light insulation in colder situations) is where EPIC shines. EPIC doesn’t absorb much what even if it gets soaked, so it dries more quickly than most soft shells. I found that it resists light sprinkle for several hours, leaks after around an hour in a real rain, and less than than in a storm. [Good as wind shirt over a light base layer when the temp is <45 F.]

PowerShield Lightweight (REI Mistral II) I have not used the light weight version of PowerShield, but it seems like a really nice material. It’s a bit warmer and more protective than Equilibrium but lighter than most other soft shell materials. [Cool Spring or Fall, Maybe winter for high output aerobic activities?]

Schoeller Dryskin (Marmot ATV) is ideal when it was between 0-30F over a medium base layer so long as I wasn’t facing really serious winds. This material is quite comfortable in warmer temp if you aren’t active… I think it might have the widest comfort range of any shell I have used. I have been dry after being out for multiple hours in pretty hard rain. Wicks and breaths really well. If you want a Dryskin jacket I would first look at BeyondFleece’s Cold Play Jacket. [Great for for spring and fall, high output winter activities].

PowerShield (Arc’Teryx MX) is very wind resistant and quite weatherproof, but not as breathable as some soft shells.I have found it appropriate for -10F to 20F type temps over a medium-heavy weight base layer. There are a number of PowerShield jackets and I haven’t had a chance to look at them enough to suggest any one in particular. [Great for winter skiing, climbing, etc]

Nylon/Fleece Wind Shirt. Some people have found using jackets which are a nylon shell bonded to a light-weight fleece highly versatile because they can be worn as a base layer, an insulation layer, a wind shell, or for moderate rain protection. Examples of these include the Marmot DriClime Windshirt (the gold standard), Patagonia Stretch Zephur (I don’t like much), Montbell Light Shell (lightest and least insulating of the bunch), Paramo Mountain Shirt, and Buffalo Teclite Activity Shirt. See Michael’s Ultralight Clothing for a more detailed description of this strategy. Warmth varies depending on how thick the fleece is.

[Ryan Jordan]

Mark’s post is great: comprehensive and fair. I’ll fill in the main gap in his experience: Polartec Powershield Lite.

I’ve used many soft shells made with this material: Arc’Teryx Gamma MX, Ground Zephur, and the GoLite Momentum.

“They are all nice shells” but the Momentum is the standout.

First, it’s the lightest.

Second, it has the most versatile fit. Arc’Teryx makes their arms awfully thin and the Ground just doesn’t quite get the body volume right. It’s flabby in the wrong places. The Momentum just fits good.

The fabric itself is great. It has surprisingly good breathability for a membrane based fabric, but it really cuts the wind, which has been the soft shell achilles heel for a long time.

My favorite feature of this fabric relative to “the others” (Dynamic, Inertia, Dryskin, etc) is that it absorbs very little moisture and dries fast, a great feature in the winter when you’re slogging through a wet snowstorm.

It’s a pretty cluttered field out there. The combination of “the right fabric” and “the right fit” at the right weight (13 oz) makes the Momentum an outstanding choice among that clutter. You should be able to get it cheap: GoLite gear and clothing seems to be getting blown out pretty much everywhere these days.

Get one now, before GoLite (likely) does the unthinkable (but inevitable) and removes this sleeping beauty from their product line.

[Jean-Philippe Cyr]

The Momentum Jacket looks amazing. What about the fit? I’m leaving in Canada/Quebec and it’s very difficult to find GoLite products here. I will need to purchase the jacket online.

I tried the Gamma MX in a store and I ususally wear Medium from MHW and Patagonia, but the Arc’Teryx was looking fine in Small. Like everybody I found the sleaves a but tight, but the jacket in general was confortable with a light fleece (MHW Micro-Ozone Zip-T) under it.

What size I should I take for the Momemtum Jacket considering I will like to wear a heavy base layer like the Patagonia R1 or a light fleece like the R2 or MHW Micro-Ozone Zip-T under it?

Thanks everyone for the advice.

A special thanks to Mark for his good overall review of most of the soft shell fabrics out there.

[Ryan Jordan]

Jean-Phillippe: I wear a M in Arc’Teryx (gamma MX) and like the L in the Momentum. I’d guess that a M Momentum would be good for you given your size preferences.

[kevin davidson]

There’s one more candidate that has not been mentioned–Beyond Fleece.
This amazing company creates custom sized softshell clothing that can fit any body, any size, any shape. The ” Cold Fusion ” jacket,perhaps the most versatile of the lot, is made of Schoeller’s WB400 fabric–another membrane based softshell fabric that is the most incredible blend of wind resistant and breathable I’ve ever encountered. I think it is better than Powershield in this respect.
This is my Fall thru Spring do-everything jacket.
This is not for summer use and it is heavier than the Momentum. But more versatile, i think.
One more thing– you can also order this jacket with the features you want–everything from different pocket configurations to pit-zips to thumb loops or a zip off hood.
http://www.beyondfleece.com/customize/cold_fusion_mens_soft_shell_jacket/

I see I killed 2 birds with one stone because I’ve been meaning to write up a user review for BPL.
Anyway –good luck in your choice–Ryan is right in that you can often find Go-Lite deeply discounted.

[Jean-Philippe Cyr]

Again doubt in my mind! ;)

The Beyond fleece jacket looks also great, but heavier (22 oz) and more pricy. Will be so great to be able to tried them all for one winter hike before deciding.

I have a pair of gloves from Black Diamond in WB400. I find them, really abrasive resitant, wind and water resistant, but at the same time a bit heavy. I wonder how is the jacket?

[kevin davidson]

If you think the WB400 is too heavy for you in the glove department–perhaps the jacket will be too heavy for you. It is a warm material for glove use–I generally wear lighter. As a jacket, I use mine for Alpine Climbing, backcountry skiing, off-season backpacking in the Pacific Northwest. Is is very comfortable in temps. from about
-10 degrees C to about 15 C without added layers.
Bon chance!

[Jean-Philippe Cyr]

I’m more cold than hot blooded and I’m leaving in Quebec (sometimes -20, -25 C during the winter!). Maybe the WB400 can be a good choice for snowshoeing and winter hiking.

At the same time the Shoeller Dryskin seams to be a good choice with a mid-heavy base layer.

For any of these fabrics I will, yes, probably go with Beyond Fleece.

I will prefer to go with something very versatile (by adding some base-layers if needed).

Powershield Lite, Poweshield, Shoeller Dryskin and WB400 look like good choices. GRRRR the choice is tuff. I will need more info to compare all of them. Mark begun a really good job comparing the different fabrics, but we still missing some info to complete the table. Maybe others can help…

[Mark Verber]

So for those of you who have used both WB400 and PowerShield. Can you characterized the differences (warmth, wind resistance, water resistance, breathability, etc)?

–mark

[Ryan Jordan]

I have a Cold Fusion Jacket, it’s my cold weather ski jacket. I bought it because the Momentum didn’t quite have enough punch for zero degrees and wind while riding lifts.

So, the differences between the two:

Powershield Lite is

– lighter
– more flexible
– less water absorbent

WB400 is

– heavier
– feels more like “armor” (thick)
– warmer
– more water absorbent
– more wind resistant*

* but I don’t think it’s wind resistant because of differences in the membrane/fabric per se, it’s just that it’s thicker.

as for breathability, same deal. the wb400 “feels” less breathable but that may be because it’s thicker/warmer than the powershield lite.

hope this helps.

[R K]

I am curious if anyone has had any experience with Tweave® Durastretch® lightweight and what your opinion of it is.I have read a reader review here for the Arcteryx Swithhback shirt that was favorable. Thanks.

-Roy-

[kevin davidson]

Ryan–I hope you use your Cold Fusion for more than lift skiing—-you’re missing out ;-)

I think we are torturing Jean-Phillippe.

[Bob Gabbart]

It was mentioned in this thread that one can find the Golite Momentum Jacket cheap. Anyone have a source for one? I can’t find it anywhere but full price.

Thank you,
Bob

[Jean-Philippe Cyr]

As you are saying Kevin, you are torturing me ;)

What I tought yesterday will be great is to find a outdoor equipement store with all of jacket/fabric versions so I can at least compare (in store) how I feel in each of the jacket. I think MEC is the best place. They have powersheild light (Halo and Pamir), Powersheild Hight Loft (Composite and Urban), Shoeller Dryskin Extreme (Ferrata) and finally Shoeller WB400 (Hyjinx). We all agree that the fit and features of their jackets are less than perfect, but it will give me a good idea.

I remember that I already tried the Hyjinx and I found it really thick and heavy (at that level I wonder if just a good ventilated shell and a mid-heavy base layer are not comparable and more versatile).

I also didn’t find good online price for the Momemtum Jacket. Backoutry Outlet has it for $149, but only in small (and I know the Momemtum is usually to small anyway).

[kevin davidson]

Roy, the older tweave I found rather stiff and heavy. The new (I think as of 2005) tweave durastretch is a big improvement in having a softer drape, much lighter but still tough. And it costs a bloody lot. I like both the Cloudveil inertia pants or Golite’s Synergy pants (google to get a good price on the later discontinued pant) better because of more bang for the buck, great quality and great materials.

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

Perhaps a small remark but if you’re looking for e.g. a powershield jacket, it could be interesting to look at the composition of the material. The arc’teryx Gamma soft shells uses a variation with a relative high spandex content which is great for stretch but spandex, being PU based if I remember correctly, absorbs also more moisture than nylon or polyester. The Powershield Lightweight version that Golite uses in the Momentum (actually a microlightweight version since it is a lot lighter than the Gamma MX version powershield) is composed of only polyester and nylon and should absorb less moisture. That’s also the reason why the new Patagonia (and perhaps the Arc’teryx Epsilon) soft shells look so interesting. Their 100% polyester content should diminish the moisture absorption while speeding up drying times, in that way increasing the comfort level.
Apart from that, I don’t think there’s a soft shell which is comfortable 365 days a year. My Gamma MX is perfect for winter weather, but too warm for the spring to fall period. For those months I have a Tweave Durastretch jacket which works quite well (but heavier than exspected).

[Jean-Philippe Cyr]

As I said, I went to MEC to look and try many options of Softshell. During my try out I concluded that the Halo and Pamir made with Powershield light are probably my best options. Softshell in Powersheild light looks very versatile and warm enought (with proper base layer and insulation) for snowshoeing and crosscountry sking (my two main activities during winter).

Powershield look also a very good choice for wind protection considering the strong wind exposure in crosscountry sking and snowshoeing (on icy lakes)

The Shoeller WB400 looks also like a good option, but felt too tick (armor like), heavier and less versatile for my activies.

Another consideration as Tom suggest is the Patagonia Ready Mix or Figure 4. I don’t see on this forum or on the net, reviews about the Ready Mix (exept one on Outside and Trailspace). Is anyone have experience with the Ready Mix on this forum?

It looks like very brethable, wind and water resistant. I wonder if with the proper insulation it can be warm enought for winter activities?

Thanks all for your past and upcoming advices.

[Thomas McDonald, MD]

hi-
I also have a WB400 shell from Beyond Fleece.

I like it for daytrips in colder, not too wet weather. But heavy enough that I’m leaving it behind for overnite trips. In wet weather, it takes an hour or two to soak through. And then it’s even heavier and very slow to dry out.

I “admire” the jacket but not the essential part of my quiver that I’d hoped for. I’m still using my old Marmot DriClime jacket quite a bit under the ID Event Jacket in more severe conditions. And I recently obtained the Montane Terra Stretch shirt (stretch Pertex equilibrium)- great for high output activity, nice fit and pockets, and a pretty good DWR finish.

I wish something like the GoLite Momentum in the Powershield lite fabric had been available 2 yrs ago…oh well.

tom

tom

[Author]

Posts