May 24, 2008 at 1:41 pm #1229144
I'm trying to find the lightest possible shell and liner fabrics, for a SUL quilt that is to be used with a bivy exclusivily, so no rain spray protection is needed. The lightest fabric I have been able to find is Momentum or Quantum, at 0.9oz/yd, is there anything lighter?. My goal is a 8oz quilt made of climashield XP(2.5). Any recommendations and sources would be greatly appreciated.May 24, 2008 at 8:16 pm #1434804
check out the quilt on MLD's website. looks to be about as light as you can get and great design.May 24, 2008 at 10:31 pm #1434812
Richard DeLongBPL Member
@legkohodLocale: Eastern Europe / Caucasus
You could use nanoseeum mesh:-) (I'm half-serious, since you'll be using a bivy already).May 24, 2008 at 11:29 pm #1434814
This can work unless you are really big or tall.
Just make the quilt out of Cuben with a tapered piece of Momentium length wise, (for presperation) on the inside and out.
You wouldn't even need to seam seal it with the bivy.
Here is the hard part that you have to deal with.
Both pieces of Momentuim would weigh about .75 ounces.
2.5 XP and 2 layers of Cuben .33 ounces times 2 = 3.16 ounces per square yard
Add the .75 ounces for the Momentium and you have 7.25 ounces left.
Divide that by 3.16 and it gives you about 2.3 yards or 3000 square inches of use out of the quilt.
48” tapered to 38” and 75” in length gives you 3225 square inches, (too much), however, 2.5 XP weighs less than 2.5 ounces per square yard, so this sized quilt might actually work..
I made a 10.1 ounce quilt for Huzzefa out of Momentium and 2.5 XP.
When I added up what it was supposed to weigh it should have been 11.3 ounces.
The XP came out to 1.2 ounces less in this quilt for him, he is 5’6” tall.
If you cut every possible corner you can you can get it down to 8 ounces, (no problem).
I could even make it for you if you wanted me to prove it.May 25, 2008 at 6:42 am #1434828
I made a double quilt using Momentum 0.9 and Climashield XP 2.5. I bought the material from Thru-Hiker.com
In my mind, I would have to consider the extra expense of cuben against the weight saved. Also, I don't know what cuben feels like (it's hand) but I know that spinnaker (0.7 oz/SY, I believe) is very krinkly and loud.
I get most of my materials from AYCE at Thru-hiker. Matter of fact, I just received an order from him last week for a poncho project. Always great service and super fast shippment. Also, his website is a wealth of knowledge and help.
Good luck with the quilt!May 25, 2008 at 6:45 am #1434829
Thanks, the cuben is a good idea, but it could stand the chance of limiting some breathing. The design that i'm planning to use is a very simple one, modeled after my Nunatak ARC Ghost. 46"shldr/34"ft, short round sewn foot box, one midway snap closure on very light webbing, and one snap at the neck with a very light drawstring.
For fabric, the best so far is- Momentum shell(0.9oz/sq.yd) w/ Habotai silk(0.5oz/sq.yd)
Do you have any sources for material, besides Thru-hiker? i would prefer to use quantum over momentum, but can't find it anywhere.May 25, 2008 at 6:50 am #1434830
Does thru hiker have a good selction of snaps, cord, cordlocks, etc.?
What did you use Momentum taffeta liner w/ Momentum shell?May 25, 2008 at 10:15 am #1434848
Yes Shawn, look under "hardware" at Thru-Hiker. I just received some 1/8" flat Griptese draw cord and tiny cord locks for my poncho hoods and some extra of each to use in the stuff sacks that I will make from the excess material.
For my quilt, I used Momentum taffeta inside and ripstop on the outside.May 25, 2008 at 10:35 am #1434851
just curious michael, why the taffeta on the inside and ripstop on the outside? and do you have any pictures you could share along with it? thanksMay 25, 2008 at 12:20 pm #1434866
I made a momentum/ 5mm silk/ 2.5 XP quilt a while back. Its a pretty good SUL combo. Mine came in at about 11 oz and could not have been smaller at all. Im 6'2 and about 185lbs. the last thing you need to have happen is to make an unusable quilt in the name of weight savings, so make sure it is large enough. If you are going to be in a bivy, you could go with silk on both sides. Also, if 8 oz instead of 9, 10, or 11 is a big deal, you could drop down to 2.0 oz climashield combat from owfinc.com the also carry other weights of climashield , but no superlight nylons.May 25, 2008 at 12:47 pm #1434869
I was just trying to accommodate your 8 ounces.
It would be the most uncomfortable tiny almost useless, (and expensive) quilt that I would have no idea why you would want something like that, but you could get it to 8 oz.
First of all Momentium is 1.05 oz per yard with the coating.
So 1.55 ounces of fabric + 2.5 for XP, (or 2 for other)
Gives you 4.05 or 3.55 total ounces per square yard.
Your specs gives you 2.3 square yards with a 75" length.
2.3 X 4.05 = 9.3 oz and 2.3 X 3.55 = 8.1 oz.
You would have to add about 1/2 ounce for the snaps and what not so 8.5 ounces is right about what you wanted.
If you did a Cuben with Momentium strip and the Silk on the bottom and the 2.0 insulation, you would have:
2.0 + .5 + .33 (per yard) +.4 (for the Momentium strip)
2.88 X 2.3 = 6.6 + (.4) = 7 ounces add the 1/2 oz for other stuff and the Cuben only saves you 1 ounce, (but is under 8 ounces).
I can talk quilt lingo forever and all the calculations I have done come to within a 10th of an ounce of the final product.
With down, I can get it down to the gram.
Also you can not buy Pertex any more so Momentium is it.
There is another way you can go about this quilt as well.
Make your own silk liner and sew a piece of pre-quilt over it as a top cover.
8 ounces would be easy and close to the warmth of the 2.0 insulation.
What I don't understand is why so minimal on your sleeping gear?
If you made a quilt that weighed 8 ounces more but was warm enough so that you could leave 10 ounces of clothing at home and have a MUCH better nights sleep, would make more since to me.
My summer quilt, (32* + temp)weighs 21 ounces with 9 ounces of down.
For that weight I have added a layer of the pre-quilt on top.
The baffles are stitched to the pre-quilt so there are no stitches on the top layer of the Momentium.
This allows all the moisture to stay in the pre-quilt and I don't need a bivy.
With my Cuben tarp, I have a 25 ounce system that allows me to have total confidence in any weather conditions down to freezing.May 25, 2008 at 1:02 pm #1434870
I had a very good reason for the placement of the fabrics, it was because, "AYCE said so." at Thru-Hiker.
Here is a picture but, it's awfully hard to pick up the textures of such fine fabrics in a photo.
The black in the Momentum taffeta inside and blue ripstop outside.May 25, 2008 at 6:44 pm #1434902
Adam KilpatrickBPL Member
@oystersLocale: South Australia
how light do you reckon things would go, or is it possible, to make a down quilt with completely cuben fibre? I am thinking having no seams at all, but rather using tape. There would likely be issues with lofting/compressing…so would a couple of panels of momentum help with that?
The idea being that cuben would work as a VBL, increasing warmth dramatically. And with sealed seams no bivy would be needed (though a tarp would still be used).
If it helps, I am mostly concerned with a 32F quilt. And clamminess wouldnt be that much of an issue in this "theoretical".
Your quilts certainly sound interesting, particularly the one with combined sythetic and down fill.
AdamMay 25, 2008 at 8:16 pm #1434915
Now you're seeing the Lite!
I think all Cuben would be clammy, but Bill F. has made a bag with 100% Cuben and liked it.
The idea about not having the bivy does make since though.
Along with the weight savings it puts you at the top of the heap with us crazies.
Now you just need to get a Z-pack so all three of your big 3 will be Cuben.
8 ounce Quilt, 3.5 ounce Tarp, and a 3 ounce Pack.
Sub-1 for the Big 3 is mighty tempting.May 26, 2008 at 7:48 am #1434970
What has inspired me to try an dmake a +/- 8oz quilt is that a friend has made one using nylon ripstop, and i thought that if I can find some lighter fabrics, I could shave a few oz's more.
Is Momentum available w/o the coating? I want to stick with the 2.5oz because I want to be around a 40' rating with some light clothes.
If I'm 5'-11", 160lbs, wouldn't 75" be a bit more length than I need? My Nunatak Ghost is a medium for up to 5'-10", but is perfect for me.
This sleeping gear is for a specific type of hiking, I do not always try to go so light. This bag will only be used for short trips in the summer, where overnight lows are forecasted above freezing. It is part of a sub 4 pound B.P. Right now my lightest option is my Nunatak, which is 14oz. I have found it to be too warm on most of my summer trips, and although I can, and do, just open it up and lay it over me, I hate the idea of having more than I need. I will always bring some insulated clothing, like a fleece zip neck or my Montbell UL Down Inner jacket. I will also, always use my bivy, in place of a ground cloth. I just prefer the bivy. I have a quilt that is only 6oz's heavier, which allows me to leave 10 oz's of clothing at home, but as I said I prefer to have some insualting clothing, as it allows me to keep moving if the temps were to drop, and also for night hiking, which I often do.
My 32' quilt and bivy total 22.5oz's, which is a bit heavier than yours, but you also have a ground cloth. I don't always bring a tarp, but if i do bring my poncho tarp, bivy, and the 8oz. quilt that will put me at 22.7 oz, with a silnylon shelter and no additonal rain jacket.
It's always fun talking shop, and it sounds like you have some great ideas for me to consider.
One last question on the Momentum, is the Momentum Taffeta an uncoated version, which actually weighs 0.9 oz? I'm thinking uncoated momentum shell and silk lining, but I need to get a sample of the silk first.
Thanks again for all the advice.May 26, 2008 at 8:25 am #1434971
Momentum-T is premium ultralite downproof taffeta finished with a high quality DWR, (straight of the site), so it will weigh 1.05 per yard.
I don't think you'll find anyone that takes 2.5 down to 32*,but you will obviously have enough clothing on to help.
I don't care what the CLO rating is on it and what it should be good for, in my eyes, when I use the 2.5 it is a 45* quilt.
If you're a warm sleeper, (not me) and can add another 10* for the clothing, all I can say is Brrrr.
But I'm sure most nights out will be no colder than 40 and you should be good to go.
Just call Acye at thru-hiker.
I'm sure he's read this forum on here already and when you tell him your name, he'll probably say something like "It's about time you called".May 26, 2008 at 1:06 pm #1435008
I don't expect the 2.5 to tak eme lower than 45' by itself, but I don't plan to use it for temps much lower than that. I estimate that I'll be able to comfortably sleep down into the mid 30's with added clothing.
I have ordered my Habotai Silk, and I will order the rest of the supplies from Acye tomorrow.
Once I make the quilt, I will post pictures and a review, after first use, on this thread. Thanks again for the advice.Jun 11, 2008 at 2:49 pm #1437846
I've got one 36" wide by roughly 7'(sorry I don't have the exact dimensions here) long using 2.5oz insulation, .5oz habotai silk and thru-hiker ripstop nylon that came out to about 11oz(scale isn't very accurate between ounces). It would be better if it was slightly wider, it's hard to keep it around even my skinny frame, but I was able to take it down to mid/high 40s last weekend before I swapped in my second attempt, which is 5' wide and uses 5oz insulation. I'm using my bivy to give the quilt shape instead of tying it down around me, but I haven't had a chance to try this in proper cold yet and it might not work then.
Thanks to everyone else for the ideas and information here, I'm very new to all of this and it's good to hear from more experienced people.Jun 12, 2008 at 5:07 am #1437961
Your quilt sounds great. Since I've made one a bit narrow before, I have to remind myself when I'm cutting that too wide is super easy to correct and also to size the width over my down coat and with my Exped downmat for versatility.
For future reference, Feathered Friends now offers some down sleepingbags and coats in "Nano" which (if memory serves) is .7 oz and is woven of waterproofed threads, similar to (but lighter than) Epic. If you can't find a source, realize that this is a Mom and Pop outfitter that is mere blocks from its factory and it might be possible to talk them into selling you small lot yardage (just don't tell them I sent you).
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