Using quilt for couples in colder temps: failed experiment

Check out Ray Jardine's site. He has a doubles quilt that has a draft stop that goes between the sleepers.

I made one of the 2 person quilts a few years back and found that it worked very well. Unless he's changed the design, the draftstopper actually runs along the outer edge of the quilt and works pretty well. I made the one with the split zip option that allows you to each carry half of the quilt saving weight and space. Jacks R Better now has a line of large quilts that can be used for couples. They're lighter and more than likely pack smaller than the Ray-way quilt. They also have the "quilt wings" accessory which would act like the draftstopper.

I never experienced the problem with a draft coming up from the area where the sleeping pads met. One solution might be to add a 1/8in GG thinlight to the setup. It would add about 2 oz to your kit, but you could use it as a couple's sit pad during the day and at night you could place it beneath your pads where they meet.

Ryan

Thanks Ryan – I was actually thinking about taking the thinlight with me for that purpose. I guess I am too lazy/inexperienced as of now to make a quilt …

I determined long ago that it was best for our relationship to not sleep under the same bag or quilt. I smell, she doesn't.

On the other hand, you may want to look at the gear that Erin and Hig are using on their epic walk from Seattle to False Pass on Unimak Island. http://www.groundtruthtrekking.org and their podcasts here at BPL.

They had a one pound quilt when they stayed with us here in Juneau last October, and have not added much to that since then. I think they added an R4 pad last December on their way out of Valdez.

My wife and I use a FF Penguin (a wide bag) with a ground sheet. The deluxe ground sheet has fleece underneath and weighs 14.2 ounces* (even though the web site says it is heavier). The nylon version is obviously lighter (how much lighter is hard to say). If I remember right, the Penguin is a few ounces lighter than the web site says as well. We got the "Nano" fabric, which is very light and waterproof. Overall, we've been very happy with it. The pads slide into it and the whole thing is secured to your pads, so you can't create a gap on the sides without unzipping.

My only requests:

1) I wish it didn't have a little gap (or hole) by the toes. You can solve that problem by pulling a little section of the bag out, but you have to remember to do that (or you'll get cold toes).

2) It has no center draft tube. This doesn't bother me, but that is probably because I'm wider. My wife solved the problem by putting her vest in the middle. It probably wouldn't be too hard to make something for that purpose.

Despite the weaknesses, I really like the system. It is lighter (and in my opinion more comfortable) than two bags but provides full protection against drafts (except for the center area) even for restless sleepers.

* I only know the weight because I ran across it the other day and remembered to weigh it. I keep meaning to do a full review of this system but always forget.

Hi Sven

My wife and I do something like this in the snow, and it works fine. It's just a little more complex.

We tie out Therm-a-Rest pads together tghtly top and bottom with tape couplers. This works just fine, no cold spots.

We each have 550 g summer bags which we use as quilts.
If it is a little cold we snuggle up.
If it is quite cold (0 C or 32 F) we snuggle up and I overlap my SB over my wife's – a double quilt in effect. Yeah, needs 'managing', but it worked fine in France for 3 months.

In winter snow conditions we take the same two summer bags PLUS a 900 g double quilt with a nylon bottom pocket at the foot end. This underlayer comes a little way up under the mats and holds the quilt in place very effectively, but doesn't stop either of us from sitting up.

This way each of us has a down wrap around our shoulders and head to block drafts. If one of us sits up in the night to drink, the other still has an SB around them. If it is really cold we will have either a polarfleece 200 ski hat or a Cocoon hood as well.

The total weight for the combination is 2*550 + 900 = 2000 g for the two of us. We are warm in the snow.

Apart from the Cocoon hoods, the rest was all home-made.

Cheers

You had drafts originating from the ground between the pads ? I never had that problem, but imagine it could happen with 2-3" thick DAMs.

It doesn't "really" get cold here in Maryland, but here's what my wife and I found when we used to live in upstate NY just south of Canada. Caveats: I am a restless side sleeper, and my wife sleeps non-restlessly – but 1/2 the time on her side, and 1/2 on her back and likes to "curl up" her back in sort of a fetal position about 1/2 the time when on her side. So YMMV a lot…

Most of the drafts my wife or I noticed (ie: woke one us up) were from air flowing down between my wife's shoulders and mine. Getting a wider, longer quilt that had enough extra to wrap around each person's shoulders and touch the ground fixed the problem as long as neither person was restless sleeper. Using other gear to make sure both people are "crammed into a narrow space" really works well – it makes the quilt seem wider and prevents restless sleepers from making as big of movements (and their drafts). Stuffing a jacket in the gap also helped when one sleeper wanted to side-sleep in a more curled-up fetal position.

In really cold conditions, we try to bring 2 summer weight bags and a summer-weight 2 person quilt to go over the top of us both. The combination is definitely WAY warmer than heavier individual bags, or a thicker 2 person quilt. (And much more convenient for the person who likes to "curl up" their back since they now don't have to add &/or remove the extra jacket when switching positions).

ps: In "suprise" cold conditions with just 1 quilt, we found sleeping back-to-back was definitely MUCH warmer than facing each other or spooning. (It suprised me too – try it).

One reason that quilts work better for some that others is ones sleeping style. A calm sleeper will fair much better with a quilt than a restless sleeper that tosses and turns all night.

Both my wife and me are of the second type. We still use my lightweight homemade double quilt in summer conditions where drafts and migrating quilts are not critical. (Funny how the quilt always seems to migrate to her side, hmmm..)

But when winter comes, we are in sleeping bags! It just works better for us.

I wonder if using a summer double quilt along with Cocoon Hoody pullovers would accomplish the same thing as 2 solo quilts plus a 2-person summer quilt. The pullovers would act as summer-weight sleeping bags, keeping out drafts, and the summer weight 2-person quilt would provide the rest of the insulation.

I know that for myself, wearing a Cocoon pullover with a quilt has completely eliminated draft issues; I wonder if this is all that is needed for couples.

Hi, Roger,

I'm curious about the sizes of the three units in you and your wife's system.

Thanks

>I'm curious about the sizes of your units in you and your wife's system.

Hey, don't you think that's a little personal?

You're right, Frank,

I guess the recent discussion of underwear and g stings had a subliminal effect.

I agree that sleeping style is important. I'm a 100% back sleeper, my partner is a side/front/toss and turn sleeper. A single quilt has never been as warm for us as two separate bags. Right now we mostly use MW PODs which we can zip together for 'fun', or separate for a sound and warm nights sleep.

> I'm curious about the sizes of the three units in you and your wife's system.

I was given some Pertex Microlight fabric as samples. It is 1.64 metres wide. Both the single bags and the double quilt were cut from this width with no extra at the sides.

The biggest trap when designing a bag (which I avoided) is to forget that there is this large 3D body inside it! Extra width is required compared to what you might think, to wrap around the body. The 1.64 m is wide enough.

The next biggest trap imho is making the bag too short. Our bags have good hoods on them – even though we don't tie the hoods up. We just lay them over our heads for warmth. The quilt is as long as the SBs – to the tip of the hood. None of this 'cut off at the neck' business. This means that we can have a lot of down over our heads when sleeping in the snow.

We keep a little air hole at the side usually – but you CAN breathe straight through this fabric. We don't – we try to put the moisture in our breath outside the bags. It ends up as hoarfrost on the tent above our heads. Better there than inside the bag making the down soggy!

I guess I had better do an MYOG on it at some stage.

Cheers

You're definitely going to want a dedicated quilt to realize the full benefits of the system. We use a Ray Jardine Alpine quilt – the draft stoppers and footbox makes a world of difference. There is plenty of room to stretch out, something like sleeping together on a full bed.

The draft stoppers are really wide and keep the quilt tucked in well. You could always sew in a strip of silnylon on each side of the bag.

We've only been using it for a few months so I couldn't tell you how it would work out for other temps. Its only been down to about 40F at night and i've always been sweating.

I initially used the draft stoppers on our quilt, but they didn't work for us (as explained above, it's the different sleeping spce and style that was our problem), thouhg swapping out the draft stoppers for some simple velcro strips attaching the quilt to the bottom of our pads made a big difference. Without the velcro (or something similar), a dedicated tosser/turner is always going to end up with most of the quilt in our experience.

It's not quite an MYOG (I'll leave Roger to that), but here is a thread in the MYOG section that goes into a bit more detail.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/11371/index.html?skip_to_post=83261#83261

I'm pretty sure if you weren't into DIY, you could pursuade one of the cottage gear manufacturers to make something to your specifications…