May 9, 2008 at 7:51 am #1228849
@ware_curtisLocale: MidwestMay 9, 2008 at 2:54 pm #1432457
Hi Curtis. Thanks for the post. Here's another Philmont list that our 2 crews are using this summer. http://troop945.com/Forms/Philmont08_Gear_Review.pdf
We have tried to take a lighter weight approach for all of our crew members. I think that even with 4 days of food and 2 liters of water we should keep each guy's pack at no more than 30 pounds.
Thanks to Ryan and BPL for allowing us to share Philmont specific info here. I hope can keep these discussions on topic.May 14, 2008 at 8:35 pm #1433343
@daprosserLocale: Camarillo, California (SCAL)
Looks like a good general light gear list. Watch the weight on the sleeping bag (~2lbs), pack (<2lbs, rain gear, & group gear (tents, pots, stoves, etc.)Jun 11, 2008 at 4:20 am #1437754
@archer-1Locale: Northeastern U.S.
Below are a few ideas I had after reviewing your lists. Feel free to take or leave any of them as you see fit. I hope some of it helps, even if in a small way. Oh, and good luck on your journey!
You both have pretty solid lists, IMHO. I'm glad you're asking the boys to carry personal First Aid kits – my troop's 2004 and 2006 crews were discouraged from same in lieu of a crew kit. Personally, I'm not excited about digging into the crew kit for minor issues.
I'm also recc. that my crews wear SPF clothing and wide brimmed hats vs. using sun screen. Sun screen is heavy, messy, and takes lots of time to re-apply. The SPF ratings have been proven to be massively overstated. I'm a big fan of the EMS long sleeved, T1 shirts – I've worn them in East Coast summer heat without issue.
Like Doug, I recc. taking a hard look at the Crew Gear. Philmont gear looks super heavy to me, especially the Chef's kits. Instead, we'll be using MSR reactors and turkey bags this year.
I have not had success keeping clothes dry in zip locks for trips that last even as long as a week. They tend to break down. I know they're expensive, but the Sea to Summit Ultra-Sil dry bags are super light and last a very long time.
I'm not sure what the contact solution is for. If it's wound irrigation, I get it. If it's for contacts, my recc. is to have the boys leave those at home. Trail conditions aren't super sanitary, and I really don't want to have to fish one out of a boys eye in a medical situation.
My final tip is to get the trekking maps and plot your course, including water re-fill optys before you go or decide how much water carrying capacity you'll need. We're going to deviate from our suggested route to hit Big Red on the way from Phillips Camp to Cito. I haven't mapped it out, but 4 liters per person isn't goiong to cut it. My best guess without doing the math is 6, it could be more. That's one reason why I'm advocating bladders over Nalgenes for the bulk of our personal water carrying capacity. I've also been using a used Gator-Aid bottle in lieu of a Nalgene for 3 season camping – cheaper, and lighter, but still darn tough (I've used one for my last 150+ miles and not one problem).Jun 14, 2008 at 4:52 pm #1438396
@scottbentzLocale: Southern California
How many of you take along the collapsable 2.5 gallon water containers? We do this in the Sierras with scouts (never when I pack with family, etc.). Just wondering if it is advisable at Philmont.Jun 14, 2008 at 7:41 pm #1438412
@eaglembLocale: AZ, the Great Southwest!
It depends on where you are camping. If you at at 2 dry trail camps in a row, you likely need to have the extra capacity. It's also unlikely 2.5 gals will do it for a full crew, but all this depends on how long your at dry camps for.
We're taking a 4 and 6 gallon as a cya. You can always partially fill them up, or if you don't need them it's cheap insurance.
Does that help?
See you there in 15 days,
MikeBJun 15, 2008 at 8:43 am #1438452
@scottbentzLocale: Southern California
Thanks for the replies. I guess I'll be suggesting we take a few collapsables. We're used to doing it anyway. Probably take 2 2.5 gallon and 1 5 gallon.
ScottJun 15, 2008 at 9:11 am #1438457
Albert: I'm not sure which route you're considering from Phillips Camp to Cito via Big Red but I don't think there'd be much distance penalty if you routed through Red Hills camp … water available there. Advisory: in 2007 the trail down Big Red towards Comanche Pass faded to nil … providing our scouts the bush whacking experience they'd been looking for. Nothing to avoid though, it was a simple enough real life orienteering problem that they enjoyed … one more step up the skill/experience based confidence ladder.
All: Ditto Albert's endorsement of reused 1 liter soda/water/gator bottles. They are more than tough enough, weigh only about 2oz each, low cost and two added advantages are 1) it is easier to distribute the water weight to everyone (avoids the "it isn't my turn" and "I don't have room in my pack" arguments) 2) even empty they use up volume in the too large packs many (most) folks buy, reducing the temptation to fill them with heavier thingsJun 15, 2008 at 8:50 pm #1438526
Mike, Jim, Scott,
For our crews we have each hiker carry a minimum of 2 x 1 liter bottles plus a 2.5 liter Platypus. So, we are not planning on carrying the 2.5 gal container as we have a gallon+ of capacity per camper. Our dry camp is also at Phillips Camp.
Is that enough to get by? If we cook before our climb will we be carrying enough water?
Another question about Phillips Camp, how exposed is that site at 11K+? What has been your experience with weather especially lightning?
ThanksJun 16, 2008 at 12:23 pm #1438604
We went over Phillips but did not camp there. I'd have felt comfortable camping on Phillips with 4.5 liters each if eating the wet meal at the previous water source. But everywhere we went we heard that Philmont was greener in 2007 than any of the previous 30 years so I don't know if my experience was typical.
Phillip's peak was just short of the tree line with a few small trees. The campsite is slightly lower. We paused to see Mt. Phillips camp while a crew member flew the pilot-to-bombardier … it was in a real forest. Was not a windy day though so I guess I don't know about exposure. I did speak to some southern troops who camped there and suffered from the cold although based on what we experienced camped at Clear Creek I doubt it was colder than 40F that morning. Philmont is quite safety conscious so I suspect if lightning was problematic the campsite would not be there.Jun 17, 2008 at 3:16 pm #1438790
We camped at Philips in '01. Will be back in two weeks :)The summit is pretty flat with lots of rocks on the west slope – they make great chair for watching the sunset.
The actual campsite is a few hundred yards to the east of and a bit below the summit back in the trees. It's no more exposed than many campsites. Had to hunt for the bear bag cable a bit among the trees, but it was a nice site quiet overall. With the altitude it did cool off quickly once the sun was gone. Woke up to frost and mule deer in camp.
I expect there is will be some snow in the shade for a while this year.
We had supper for lunch at Clear Creek before heading up from the west side. Carried 3-4 liters of water each and then refilled the next morning at Cyphers.
–RichJun 25, 2008 at 12:13 pm #1440088
@dallasLocale: North Texas
We were scheduled to camp on Mt. Phillips but they re-routed us the night before to Clear Creek due to excessive snow on the mountain. It was unfortunate because there were at least 3 crews who still got to camp there the same night. There were some deep snow banks but most of the area was clear.
We had each person bring an extra 2 liter Platypus container in addition to at least 3 liter personal capacity. This enabled us to avoid the Philmont 2 1/2 gallon collapsable container and to equally distribute the extra water carry. We talked about cooking the dinner for lunch to avoid extra water, but ended up trading the dinner for another lunch to avoid the cooking and because we were short on time since we were hiking from Lamberts Mine.
Phillips was cool and breezy but not excessively cold on 6/17, but it will most likely be your coldest campsite.
JohnJul 14, 2009 at 1:43 pm #1513839
Timothy F MulliganMember
We had a variety of collapsible bottles – (3) 2.5L, (2) 3.0L, and (3) 4.0L. It helped spreead the load around.
Another possibility is to eat lunch at Clear Creek. Eat the following day's lunch for dinner up on Mt. Phillips. Then eat two suppers the following day when you have more water and time available for cooking.
We didn't do this, but a Venture crew that had our same itinerary did this and it worked out better for them than taking the extra time at Clear Creek to cook before climbing Mt. Phillips. The time we spent cooking, they spent doing program activities at Clear Creek.
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