Water purifying query:

[Paul Foreman]

Please forgive me for not being able to find a suitable answer on search mode.
Also, this is my first post, after having lurked here a while.
I'm much more of a hunter here in Alabama, not a hiker, although that could change. I much, much appreciate lightweight, compact gear over standard camo crap.
Anyhow, I am interested in lightweight water purifying gear. The Katadyn hiker PRO caught my eye in the REI catalogue, at 11 ounces or so.
Is that a good piece of gear? Competitiors? I'd much prefer the weight penalty of the gear over tabs/chlorine and poor-tasting water. Must keep the bride happy. Many thanks ahead of time.

[Ross Bleakney]

A lot of people use treatment. It is the lightest way to go. I don't use the stuff personally, but my understanding is that it has improved in both taste and wait time. I use a different technique, involving a little bit of tubing and an inline filter (like the Seychelles filter). I connect up a platypus to an inline filter, lift up the bladder and sip. It works well. If you don't like drinking directly from the filter, you can add a bit of tubing on the other end (you can even add a bite valve if that is the way you want to go). The key thing with that approach is to remember that the water in your bottle is contaminated (until you wash it out with soap and water at home).

I also use that bottle as part of a drip system. My wife carries a clean platypus. I drilled two small holes at the bottom of the filter (by the edges) and attached some cord. I then hang the bladder upside down from a tree branch. I then connect the tubing with the filter. On the other end of the filter I have similar tubing leading to another connector and my wife's bladder. You sometimes have to "burp" the thing. Her water is clean, mine is dirty. We can sit around at camp and drink her clean water (without using a filter).

I should also mention that I rarely carry water. I tend to sip and go (and dump out the excess). Water is really heavy stuff. The "sip and go" method only works if you hike in an area with lots of streams or lakes. I have to adjust my drinking habits based on the season (insert joke here).

[Hikin’ Jim]

Katadyn generally has a good reputation. I don't have any particular knowledge about that specific model.

[Tony Wong]

If you are looking for something light and easy, MSR has a new filter out that is around 7 oz.

http://www.rei.com/product/767564?vcat=REI_SEARCH

If you are a REI member, you can chop 20% off with the sale that is going on…20% off one item. Retail $99.00

I have not used the MSR filter, but it sounds like it is using the same technology as the Sawyer In Line Filter, which I have been using for over a year now for my family and I.

I am a big fan of this filter.

Here is a review I wrote a while back on the filter & instructions on how to build a gravity filter:

Pros: Light Weight, Field Cleanable by backwashing, No Chemicals, No Pumping

Cons: Setup time longer than traditional filter. Speed of filtration can vary based on conditions. Like traditional filters, susceptible to damage if frozen.

Warning: Do Not allow any type of filter to freeze. Drain completely when done. Sleep with filter in your sleeping bag, if necessary to prevent freezing. Alway carry water treatment chemicals as an emergency backup in the event your filter fails.

My experience:

I now use the Sawyer inline filter as my sole water filtration system for my family and I, including my four year old daughter.

My first experience using the Sawyer inline filter was on a backpacking trip to Lake Vernon in May 2007 in Yosemite above Hetch Hetchy Reservoir.

Conditions were bad with rain turning to snow at the higher elevations. We were forced to retreat back half way into the trip when snow levels reached knee high levels and my wife had earlier fallen and injured her leg. We retreated to a area that had snow on the ground at levels of two or three inches, where we could pitch our tents.

Our only source of water was a small, stagnant pond that was choked with fallen trees and decaying grasses all along the shoreline. The water along the shoreline was shallow, green in color and choked with small bits of debris in the water.

In our group of four, only one of us had a traditional filter, a MSR Sweetwater Micro filter. After pumping about 3/4 of a Liter, the filter complete clogged up and failed. Unfortunately, the person who had brought the filter had forgotten to bring the cleaning kit for the filter!

I pulled the gravity filter out and assembled it, hoping that it would work as advertised. In my dirty water bag of green water, I could clearly see bits of dead grass and a few small bugs swimming around.

To my surprise, the filtered water still had a greenish, brown color to it. With some reservation and skepticism, we drank the water and cooked with it. What other option did we have? Thankfully, the filter worked and no one got sick during the remainder of the trip or afterwards.

I estimate that each one of us easily drank three to four liters of water filtered by the Sawyer inline filter.

Since that experience, the Sawyer filter has been the only filter that I use.

Recent trips with the Sawyer filter:

4 day, 50 mile loop from Yosemite's Glacier Point to Red Peak Pass at 10,800 ft to Merced Lake, Little Yosemite Valley, back to Glacier Point.

4 day, 70 mile trip on the High Sierra Trail from Crescent Meadow to the top of Mt. Whitney.

Here is the list of items that you will need:

* Sawyer In Line Filter 1.80 oz
* Platypus Filter Link 0.50 oz
* Platypus Water Tank 4 Liter 4.50 oz
* Platypus 2+ Liter Water Bottle 1.20 oz
* Nite Ize Figure 9 Rope Tightner Small Size 0.25 oz
* Kelty Triptease Guyline/Cord 3-4 ft. 0.10 oz
* 3ft. 3/8" Food Grade Vinyl Tubing 3.50 oz
* 2 3/8" Metal Grommets 0.25 oz
* Grommet Tool for installing grommets

Total Weight of Full System: 12.1 oz

Weight of Stripped Down System: 6.8 oz
(See Below for details)

Weight of Trail/Dayhiking System: 3.3 oz
(see Below for details)

How to Build Sawyer Gravity Filter:

1. Identify top and bottom of Sawyer Filter: Top of filter is the input for dirty water. Bottom is output for clean water

2. Attach Tubing included with Sawyer Filter to "top" of Sawyer Filter

3. Secure tubing to Filter with hose clamp included with Filter

4. Attach Platypus Filter Link to open end of tubing

5. Install one grommet at the left side of the bottom edge of the Platypus Water Tank

6. Install one grommet at the right side of the bottom edge of the Platypus Water Tank

Note: When the Water Tank is standing upright on a table the grommets should be facing towards you, not underneath the Water Tank. Grommets are for hanging Water Tank upside down using cord from a tree branch or tree trunk

How to use Sawyer Gravity Filter:

1. Fill Water Tank with Dirty Water

2. Seal "Zip Lock" top of Water Tank

3. Make sure that threaded cap included with Water Tank is tightly installed

4. Thread Cord through both grommets

5. Hang Water Tank upside down from a tree branch or tree trunk using Cord

6. Using Nite Ize Figure 9 Rope Tightener to quickly tie or untied cord to tree branch or tree trunk

7. Attach 3ft. 3/8" Food Grade Vinyl Tubing to the "bottom" of Sawyer Filter

8. Stand Platypus 2+ Liter Water Bottle Upright on the ground

9. Lift hanging Water Tank to upright position and remove threaded cap

10. Screw on Filter Link/Sawyer Filter to Water Tank

11. Lower Water Tank to the Hanging upside down position

12. Start filtering process by sucking on end of 3 ft. Food Grade Vinyl Tubing until water flows through filter

13. Insert end of 3ft. Food Grade Vinyl Tubing into Platypus 2+ Liter Water Bottle to collect clean, filtered water

14. When Platypus 2+ Liter Water Bottle is full replace with an optional second Water Bottle to filter remaining water in Water Tank

15. If you only have one Water Bottle, unscrew Filter Link/Sawyer Filter and thread cap onto Water Tank

16. Filter additional water as needed

Note: For additional convenience, a second Platypus Filter Link can be attached to the end of the 3ft. tubing and threaded to the Platypus 2+ Liter Water Bottle. If this is done, thread Filter Link loosely to allow air to escape from the 2+ Liter Water Bottle. Failure to do so will result in pressure accumulation in the Water Bottle and will slow or stop water flow to the Water Bottle.

Note: As you become more proficient at using the gravity filter, you can attach the Sawyer filter to the Water Tank before hanging the bag upside down from a tree.

How to save weight using Stripped Down System:

1. Only use Sawyer Filter, Platypus Filter Link, and Platypus Water Tank

2. Use your hydration system as your "catch bag" for clean water

3. Remove bite valve from hydration system

4. Connect bottom of Sawyer Filter to your hydration system's hose where bite valve was attached

5. Lay Water Tank on its side on a rock or fallen tree vs. hanging from a tree branch or tree trunk

Note: I use a Platypus 1.8 L Hoser Hydration System (3.5 oz), which has a gusseted bottom that allows it to stand upright.

When using the Hoser as a catch bag, it is important to loosen the threaded cap that connects the tubing to the hydration bag to prevent pressure accumulation, which will slow or stop the flow of water.

How to use Sawyer Filter on the Trail or Day hiking:

1. Only use Sawyer Filter, Platypus Filter Link and 1 oz. disposable 1 pint/500 ml water bottle

2. When hiking on the trail and you want a fast drink of water without having to use the full system, fill 1 pint bottle with dirty water

3. Screw on Filter Link/Sawyer Filter loosely to 1 pint bottle

4. Turn bottle upside down

5. Use bottom of Sawyer filter as a straw to suck water from bottle through filter

Note: Loosely thread the Filter Link/Sawyer Filter. As you drink water, you should see a steady stream of air bubbles rising in the bottle.

Threading the Filter too tightly to the bottle will create a vacuum as you drink, which will collapse/crush the bottle and slow the flow.

Seeing the air bubbles rising in the bottle is an indication that you have not threaded the Filter too tightly.

I hope that this helps you to lower your pack weight and help you to build a gravity filter using the Sawyer Inline filter.

-Tony

Note: Regarding Backwashing filter to clean in the field.

I have not experienced a reduction in water flow while in the field.

Each time that I have returned from a trip I have backwashed the filter using the gravity filter system using a small cap full of bleach followed by rinsing the filter two times with clean water.

Based on my experience at home, I see no reason why I could not backwash the filter in the field.

[Michael Davis]

Welcome to the forum Paul! I would guess , if you put a half dozen backpackers together in a group, you wouldn't see the exact same treatment method in any of them. My two favorite ones are 1) a gravity filter and 2) UV light, sometimes in combination.

My gravity filter is the Amigo from ULA. Bill Fornshell, on this forum, made a very lightweight version of this: search "make your own gear" sub-forum. I don't like to pump!

The UV light that I use is the steripen Adventurer model. UV will kill anything and without any chemical aftertaste. I use this when water sources are really suspect.

I mentioned sometimes "in combination." That's because, in order for the UV light to be effective, the water has to be clear. ALSO, the bride's confidence level goes way up when she sees all this and the trip becomes more enjoyable! I hear you, Paul!

[Paul Foreman]

… for your kind responses.

[Barry P]

Usually, purifying means it can also kill viruses. Most filters do not. However, that’s usually not a risk in the US. Or if you want to be safe, use UV or some type of chloride treatment.

Some filters also purify. The one I take which is close to the heaviest thing in my pack (18oz) is the First Need Filter. It is the ONLY filter I’ve seen that comes with a test to see if your filter is cracked (from over pumping or frozen) and thus not working. You basically put 2 drops of dark food coloring in a liter of water. If it pumps out clear, it passes.

The Hiker Pro failed miserably when I did this test. I even tested some ceramic filters and they let colored water through. I have filtered purple grape soda through my First Need and it came out clear! So the First Need will filter largish organic molecules while other filters do not. It’s ironic: the First Need claims a 0.4um filter while hiker pro claims a 0.3um. Yet it looks like First Need does better.

I like the first need because:
1. no extra parts to attach (or keep track of!)
2. cannot contaminate outlet (since lid keeps it covered)
3. easy method to see if it’s truly filtering.
4. fast. Mine is 1L/min. The new one is 1.9L/min.
5. I can see GREEN lake water going in and CLEAR water coming out!
6. Even when it gets hard to pump (after 100 gallons), it can still be used as a gravity filter.
7. comes with setup and instructions for a gravity filter.
8. no scrubbing required for field cleaning; just backflush (if needed)

Con:
1. Weight.

For me, gravity filtering is best done by First Need unless weight is really a worry.

Good luck on water purification.

-Barry

[Paul Foreman]

… First Need.
Did a little reading on Seychelle, too.

[EndoftheTrail]

Paul:

First Need is one of the very few portable pump filters/purifiers that does "everything":

1. improve water clarity (filtering out sediments and gunk)
2. improve water taste (carbon element)
3. handles protozoa (cysts, crypto, etc.)
4. handles bacteria
5. handles viruses

Chemicals like chlorine dioxide tablets will do #3-5 — making the water biologically safe to drink — although gross looking and foul tasting water will still be just that. Chemicals can also impart their own taste to the water — which some folks don't mind while others hate. Another thing, because of #3's bigger sizes and hard, protective shells, treatment time can range from 20 minutes to 4 hours — the colder the water, the longer the time needed because chems work sluggishly in low temps.

Most all other mechanical filter pumps and inline filters can only do #1-4. Viruses are supposedly not an issue out in the wilds, but one never really knows, esp. at water sources that are close to popular campsites.

If viruses are not an issue, get a pump filter. I do not recommend using in-line filter like Seychelle or Frontier Pro by itself. These filters have much larger pore sizes just so folks can suck water through without turning blue. The Seychelle and Frontier Pro pore sizes are 10 and 15 times bigger than the size of a bacteria respectively. One can argue that it's better than nothing, but I think it's nothing more than a false sense of security.

First Need purifier and quality filter pumps aside — if you really want a light weight but still meaningfully effective system, you can pair up by first treating your water (tablets weigh nothing), then suck through a very light weight filter like the Frontier Pro. This works esp. well with very cold water: the chemicals will kill/neutralize the bacteria and viruses in 15-20 minutes — but instead of waiting up to four hours to kill protozoa, you can rely on your filter to trap them instead — so you never have to wait more than 20 minutes regardless of water temperature.

Hope this helps.

[John G]

I mixed some McCormick chilli powder into some tap water (to simulate dirt) and filtered it through my Hiker Pro to show some Cub Scouts how to filter water so they didn't have to carry 4L of water in areas with abundant streams. Unfortunately, the water came out a VERY unappitizing brownish / yellow iodine looking color. Now they (and my wife) are sure they will never drink water unless it comes from a campground water pipe – since the filter "obviously" doesn't remove nasty things – especially microscopic nasties. Complete backfire…

Lesson learned – don't get a Pur Hiker. I've never gotten sick drinking water coming out of it, but now I'm pretty sure it's not because the filter made the water any safer.

[EndoftheTrail]

John:

I mixed some blue food coloring into my water and stirred thoroughly until the entire glass was a uniform hue of deep, deep blue.

When I pumped the water through my First Need purifier, the outflow was crystal clear!

[Tony Wong]

In case anyone was interested, Sawyer does make a filter that eliminates viruses.

http://www.sawyerproducts.com/products.htm#002

I have a friend who has bought it and it is substantially larger than the inline filter that I use for bacteria.

-Tony

[EndoftheTrail]

True indeed. But it's a shame that the Sawyer lacks a carbon element and does nothing to improve water taste. If the water is foul tasting, it comes out of the Sawyer tasting exactly the same.

[Tony Wong]

Ben,

You are absolutely right….the Sawyer filter gets a 4.0 out of 5.0 from me because it does not have a carbon filter.

The only fix that I have managed to come up with is attaching the carbon filter that Katadyn sells for their filters….think that it adds an ounce for the setup.

Fortunately for me, I have been in the Sierras on most of my trips and the water taste great up there.

As you can tell from my post, I am a pretty big fan of the Sawyer filter…I just like the speed and ease of use of it, but I do realize that it is not a perfect solution.

-Tony

[EndoftheTrail]

Tony:

Agree — for the Sierras, you won't have much of any problems with bad-tasting water.

Curious, the carbon filter attachment you mentioned above, is it this? I've tried this combination and it works well. I have the water pass through the carbon filter first — to remove any foul taste and to serve as a pre-filter of sorts — and then through the Sawyer to remove the biological baddies.

[Tony Wong]

Ben,

You got it.

I have it on my REI wish list.

(I am running out of things to buy from REI as more of my gear is now specialized or simply not mass produced)

Good to hear that it works well…figured that I would want to have it for overnighters in the Bay Area, where I live.

There are a lot places where there are cattle…don't want to drink cow water!

-Tony

[EndoftheTrail]

Tony:

I have the above carbon filter — used only once — couldn't have filtered more than one liter of clear, PNW mountain stream water. It's been sitting in my gear closet ever since. I say it has 99.99% life remaining.

I notice that you are not set up to receive PM's. But anyway, if you are interested, pleae PM me your mailing address, and I'll be happy to mail it to you. No charge — just your promise that you'll give it a good home and lots of fresh air. :)

[Jason Brinkman]

Paul,

The Katadyn Hiker PRO is a good option – fairly low weight for a filter, long element life, decent flow, and the PRO includes a silt-stopper wrap around the element that can be easily flushed to prevent clogging. Doesn't kill viruses, but not a big concern in the Northwest or Rocky Mountain backcountry where I hike.

Lately I have switched to Micropur MP-1 tablets. No noticeable aftertaste in cold water, and very light and simple. I typically only wait a minimum of 30 minutes, as Crypto is also rare here. You might give them a try. I use a small scissors to open the very tough foil packs.

If you had really questionable water sources, you might pre-treat with MP-1 and then filter after 15 minutes. This would wipe out viruses too, and the carbon element in the Hiker PRO would eliminate most taste.

By the way, MP-1 generates chlorine dioxide which is an oxidizing chemical. It does not use chlorine as the disinfectant. The byproduct of the reaction is chlorite, which is regarded as harmless and relatively tasteless.

[EndoftheTrail]

The Micropur foil bubble packaging is actually very small, thin, and light. My fingers are 'semi-athritic' and still I find them completely easy and straightforward to tear open — every time. YMMV.

[Andrew King]

I also find the foil packaging of the Micropur tablets difficult if not impossible to open with my fingers. Ben, what's your secret to do this even with semi-arthritic fingers? I typically use my knife to slice open one side, and from there then tear open the the compartment to drop out the tablet.

[EndoftheTrail]

Not that it is any secret — tear with your nails not with your fingers:

1. Tear off one bubble from the package, along the perforation.

2. Hold the bubble touching only the top edge of the package — using the nails of your two thumbs and forefingers — two thumbs on the near side, two forefingers on the opposite side.

3. Twist and tear open — basically your nails make the initial cut, which allows for easy tearing.

[Max Hoagland]

AquaMira just made a filter that weighs 2 oz. It can screw onto platypus bottles that you drink directly from. It costs $20 and can filter 200 liters of water in its lifetime!!! However, it is only a personal filter, so you and your bride would each have to get one if you wanted to drink at the same time.

P.S. Stop hunting – go vegan and gather instead.

[Terry Morris]

Besides needing a filter for backpacking, I also do a lot of low budget traveling in countries where there usually isn't potable water coming from the tap. You have to buy all your drinking water and it can be more expensive than the cost of your food. I have been using my backpacking filter, but I haven't been using chemical treatment- not smart. I really need to upgrade my system to deal so i can treat and then remove the chemicals too.
I don't want to have to taste or ingest the chemicals either.

Besides the First Need filter, and the Katydine Carbon Filter in combination with other filters, are there any other light weight filters that do everything sited below?

1. improve water clarity (filtering out sediments and gunk)
2. improve water taste (carbon element)
3. handles protozoa (cysts, crypto, etc.)
4. handles bacteria
5. handles viruses

Thanks

[Adam Kilpatrick]

Terry, which filter are you talking about when you mention Katadyn carbon filter?

There are only a couple of Katadyn filters which include a carbon core. The pocket is one of them, which I would recommend for your listed purposes, but not because of the carbon core. The carbon generally works on removing chemicals, etc. The key part of the system, which works on all the other nasties before the carbon sees the water is the ceramic filter, which lasts something fantastical like 10,000L of water.

I would take the Combi or the Pocket. Both filters, particularly the latter will last you a very very long time. The pocket is mostly metal and bombproof.

The Vario also has a ceramic and carbon core, though it it isn't made to last quite as long.

[Roger Caffin]

The First need will handle viruses. I am not ware of any other filter which can.
Sadly, nasty viruses are VERY common.

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