$260-00 BMW Arc sleeping bags

[Anonymous]

Yes, You read correctly.This is possible if BMW gets the next lot made in Asia.If you look at similar bags currently on the market,ie Golite,MountainHardWear etc,this is around the price.I hope other people will ask Ryan to look at making this bag in Asia so more people can afford to go LIGHT.

[paul johnson]

[this is sort of an Editorial, so i get to say what i want, without a lot of “proof” (i know, a “cop out”, but admittedly, i know very little about anything to do with “business” and general consumer manufacturing, hence the “editorial” approach). you, the reader, also gets to take me to task with replies, letting me know how wrong i am. ok, with this in mind, read on…]

i understand the reason for the request of the initial poster and can respect the motivation for the post, but personally, i won’t ask for such.

there are at least three reasons that immediately pop into my mind. i think that these are obvious to everyone who shares my perspective, so i won’t elaborate much on them, but will only mention:

1. quantity – insufficient for large scale mfr. however, this is somewhat price dependent – a “circle” or “circular reasoning”, so to speak.

2. quality – nothing in my experience compares to the quality of these small US/Canadian/GB “cottage mfrs”. Also, think cust. srv., i.e. when there’s problem – i think (i could be wrong here) that a small company like BMW/BPL prob. can’t either risk or afford to deal with a large overseas mfr when the inevitable quality problems arise from such mfrs. also, as the fabric weights go down, i believe that it becomes more difficult to make the product properly all of the time. [don’t get me wrong, Montbell, for instance, is a very fine company that makes very good L/UL products, but Montbell, IMHO, is very different from MtnHW & other larger companies.]

3. “need to stop the bleeding” – (enough already with US jobs going overseas – how ’bout some patriotism instead of greed [NOT saying that this is the motivation of the initial poster – it would be very ignorant of me if i did so]. For my part, i’ll gladly save my pennies a while longer (often had to do this when i was younger, or pick up a “side job” to pay for something i wanted/needed to purchase) to afford the quality of a fine US/Canadian/GB (in that order) made product/garment. (obviously, the “Pertex” type raw fabrics will now come from “Nihon” (with the recent demise of “Perseverance Mills”, are there any other sources that are NOT Far-East? i don’t know.), but no reason why the finished goods need to, not with the excellent “cottage” industry mfrs here in the States.

also, please, understand, i’m a very big admirer of various Asian cultures, having been “steeped” (appropriate analogy since “Cha”, i.e. tea, is important in some Asian cultures) in some of them since childhood & have always had Asian friends. i’m NOT trying to engage in Far-East “bashing” here.

perhaps, i’m way off base here, but this is why i won’t be asking for overseas mfr. so, what do you think?…

[David Lewis]

I, personally, am always willing to pay more when I have the option of buying that extremely rare item that is not made in a sweatshop (borders may be arbitrary, but human rights are not). However, I imagine that’s moot since, as Paul points out, the quantities BMW would be ordering would probably be too small for the large overseas manufacturing plants.

[Mark]

Borders are arbitrary; humanity wins when resources are used efficiently. Further response is probably better left for the Chaff forum. That said, I’d be glad to get a quality BMW Arc down quilt for $260, just let me know how much it weighs…
-Mark

[paul johnson]

Sorry. thought the point of this thread was to discuss “asking” BMW to consider the initial posters’ request. so, if someone starts a related Chaff Thread, we can discuss the idea that “Borders are arbitrary” (you don’t think that you’ll find any sovereign nation that will buy into that idea, do you? of course, it’s highly possible that i don’t understand what you mean by that phrase.).

[Mark]

Sorry, Paul and anon. The thread drift is completely my fault. Economics is ‘my thing,’ so I tend to veer off in that direction at times. One of my friends is like that about sports…

Ryan, and other manufacturers who read and post here: your comments about outsourcing/ offshoring would be welcome. I’d also be curious to know if you’ve looked into it, and what you see as the upsides and downsides as it relates to making quality light gear.
-Mark

[paul johnson]

no need to apologize. we’re an equal opportunity opinion listener. hey, if you start a Chaff thread, i’m sure i’ll learn something from you, esp. since i’m but an economics ‘nit’.

[kevin davidson]

I think the BMW bag could be brought to this price point even if Nunatak(USA) were making them. This is probably easier to produce than the Pullover or Pants. Who makes them for BMW?

Do we have a date for production yet, Ryan?

[Scott Nelson]

I talked with a product designer at REI once. This was back when most of their outerwear and many of their own products were made by a sister company in Seatle. (I doubt that is the case any more.) He talked about how important it was for him to be able to see the products as they were made and catch any problems or variations right away. Often, he could make the product easier to sew or better quality by working so close with the production. This would seem doubly important with small production runs like we are taling about.

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