how to hammock camp?

"Yes, but how cold can you go down to with just CCF? I've read comments from peopel saying that CCF doesn't keep them warm in the low 50's! That's warm weather, for me, so I'd be worried that the hammock thing would be chilllllly."

Cold with ccf in the 50s is untrue as long as it was wide enough. I have gone down in the 40s with a 1/4 inch thick ccf that was 36inch wide and this was before my hypothyroidism was treated.(it keeps you from producing as much body heat).

I have been cold in the 50s while using a 20 inch wide pad, but in this situation it is obvious where the deficiency is, the sides.

That pad sleeve sounds like a really good idea.

Does using a thick CCF pad for insulation actually decrease the comfort of using a hammock (for a side sleeper)….is using a pad in this way going to be similar to sleeping on the pad on the ground in terms of stiffness?

The BB looks nice but is a bit pricey for someone not sure they are even interested….what about the Byers of Maine mosquito traveler?

And how about using a bivy inside the hammock for additional warmth and protection from wind?

yes, it is my opinion that a thick pad could reduce overall comfort. i wont compare it to a pad on the ground.. but it slightly defeats the basic idea of a hammock methinks – others would disagree
a thicker pad in a Bridge hammock actually improves the lay. it "opens" the hammock up if you will.

to block wind, i dont know that a bivy is going to be necessary as long as your tarp has sufficient coverage. This pic shows my winter tarp that is 11×10' (~19oz with all guylines/tensioners and stakes) but it is definatly storm worthy. I have 10 tiedown points on it. One of the important duties of your tarp will be to block wind, and of course, precipitation. And give you shade. I bring mine even when there is little chance of precip because that AZ sun is ruthless, especially at altitude! If you want to try hammocking for the first time, a Grand Trunk traveler will set you back $20. Keep in mind that it does not have a pad sleeve, and ccf will buckle under your weight without one. The differnce of sleeve or no is night and day. I had forgotten to stake the tensioners down, so the tarp sagged as sil is prone to do. You can see how the ends are staked inward to create "barn doors" with just enough gap for me to enter/exit. Low that morning was a balmy 34° but ive slept with this rig down to 22° without any cold spots. This tarp is Huge! my MacCat Standard is still large enough to work well in foul weather but it is only 10oz so i'll be using that one for the rest of this year (or until next snow camp)

These videos are so funny. You got to check them out. Yaaah buddy.

Another hammocker here. I've been hanging for around 2 years now and am pretty hooked. I started out with a Hennessey style hammock, but have graduated to a Warbonnet Blackbird top entry style hammock. The Blackbird is a new evolutionary design that includes full bug protection as well as a storage shelf that really helps you stay organized inside the hammock. It also includes a footbox area for a roomy as well as flat lay on the diagonal. Aside from the great sleep comfort, it's really nice to have a comfortable seat and large, well ventilated living area underneath your tarp. Down underquilts are for sure the way to go for ultimate comfort. BTW, I'm the guy with the white feet in Mike's video.

I'm putting together a more UL oriented rig now, that includes a simple end gathered hammock at ~15 oz (incl suspension), and a smaller shaped cuben tarp at 4.5oz. My Te-wa down underquilt weighs around 15oz. Not quite down to the weight of a minimal tarp/bivy/pad combo, but pretty darn good for all the comfort and functionality you get. It's nice to wake up in the morning without feeling all stiff and sore.

"Does using a thick CCF pad for insulation actually decrease the comfort of using a hammock (for a side sleeper)….is using a pad in this way going to be similar to sleeping on the pad on the ground in terms of stiffness?"

Just because you are a side sleeper on the ground doesn't mean that you are a side sleeper in a hammock. I am a side sleeper on the ground and toss and turn a lot, but in my hammock I lay on my back and don't move all night and get a better nights rest.

The only part of the ccf that decreases any comfort for me is the head when using a 3/8 inch pad. It stiffens it up too much so I just move the pad down and throw a jacket or something under it.

Let me first say that I changed over to hammock camping about a year ago. I was on a group day hike in south Texas walking through a shady grove of live oaks. I mentioned to one of my fellow hikers that this would be a great place to camp and get out of the sun if it weren't for the thousands of football sized rocks everywhere. She pointed out that if I was a hammock camper that wouldn't be a problem. Suddenly the light went on. With a hammock, no looking for level spots, heck camped on 30* slopes if you want, over logs, bushes, rocks, roots, etc. So I gave it a try.

I was concerned because I am a side sleeper, but the funny thing about a hammock is that you are not confined to side or back like on the ground. You can sleep on you side or your back, but since a hammock supports your whole body you can also sleep halfway in between or at any angle you want. Very cool.

Speaking of cool, the under insulation is a real issue but is easily dealt with. I have a 15 oz under quilt that is good to about 35-40* for me. That is about the weight of my ground sleeping pad so weightwise it's a wash. Depending on which hammock I use I can come in at between 21 oz to about 32 oz for my shelter (hammock with bug netting and tarp and suspension) which is in the range of my beloved TT Contrail, so another wash. And yes I have practiced pitching the hammock on the ground as kind of a glorified bivy, so if I can't find trees I can go to ground.

-Mark

So, for those of you who have used your hammock as a bivvy, aren't you worried about tearing the nylon bottom of the hammock? If I'm using a hammock, I don't bring much in the way of a ground sheet, so there's nothing really between the ground and the nylon bottom, a bottom that isn't designed to be on the ground.

Also, if you're out hammock camping and using an underquilt, what do you do when you have to go to the ground? The underquilt isn't going to give you much padding or insulation, and you probably don't have a proper pad with you. How do you handle that?

I always have a ccf pad along that I use as frame support in my Conduit frameless pack, a GG NightLight. Since I use a 2/3 size underquilt, this also forms the bottom side insulation for my legs. It would suck to go to ground with it, but at least I always have something that I could use if necessary. I don't think I've ever had to go to ground unexpectedly. Yet. Even living out here in Arizona. Usually there's something you can figure out to enable you to hang. I also usually carry a polycryo groundsheet with me for this or any other need. Of course, in places like the Grand Canyon or other that you know there is no possibility for hanging, you just plan on ground sleeping.

I started using a hammock in 2003 and for several years was worried about what to do if I had to go to the ground.

I have never had an unplanned night on the ground. There are more places to hang a hammock than there are flat and dry places to put a tent.

When I want the option to go to the ground the kit I use is a simple end gathered hammock, a 60" Big Agnes Insulated Air Core, and a Speer Segmented Pad Extended. The 4 ccf pad strips in the SPE make a descent virtual frame for a pack.

An unplanned trip to the ground is not a problem.

I converted to a hammock when I went on a group trip and the tent site was so small that we pitched our tents with crossed guylines. Everytime someone visited the bushes it woke us all up.

I carry about a pound extra to sleep in a hammock, but I also have a camp chair, I spend time reading in my hammock and sleep better than I do on a bed. I am a side sleeper, on a bed, but a diagonal sleeper in hammock. It took me 3 nights to find the sweet spot for hammock sleeping, but now when I have a restless night at home I sleep in the hammock on the patio.

Bottom insulation is necessary. The three tools are under quilts, SPE with pads and a double layer with a pad sleeve. they all work — it just a matter of matching the tool to your style.

A hammock is specialized gear. Not good if you want to cuddle with your partner. Not good for groups in places like the Grand Canyon. Not good for hiking above timberline. But many people have both a road bike and a mountain bike. A mountain bike will substitute for a road bike, but it does not get the job done very well. Most of the objections to hammock are similar to people saying that road bikes are inadequate because they do not perform well off pavement.

I try to avoid the SUV syndrome. Yes, an SUV will do everything you need a vehicle to do, but it does not do anything well.

Jim,
Like Andrew, I carry a GG NightLight as a "frame" for my pack so it would get pressed in to service if I was on the ground. I also carry a big plastic "Lawn and Leaf" trash bag for a variety of uses. One would include cutting the side seams and spreading it out to use as a ground cover for a hammock turned bivy. I have also never had to do this. I did come close in a stunted forest along the Oregon coast where the underbrush was so dense and the trees all had many branches all the way to the ground, that I had a hard time finding a decent hanging site. However, eventually I found a spot which was good because the rain storm that night turned the ground into a swamp. I'm glad I wasn't on the ground for that.

-Mark

"Just because you are a side sleeper on the ground doesn't mean that you are a side sleeper in a hammock. I am a side sleeper on the ground and toss and turn a lot, but in my hammock I lay on my back and don't move all night and get a better nights rest"

Robert, that is a very interesting point especially since this morning while packing my rig i realized that I fell asleep on my back, and stayed in that position most of the night. Not an interesting observation you may say but here's the thing: i have never in my life been able to sleep on my back, in a bed. I just cant do it. I have always been a side sleeper.

Foe those concerned about the rather steep cost of some ofthe higher end hammocks:

Unlike most things in life if you buy one and don't like it yu will be able to sell it and get all, or very close, of your money back.

IIRC the owner of warbonnet has a very liberal return policy. Not rei lberal, but if you aren't happy, andhe can't fix it, he'll take it back…

There's little risk of losing a lot of money, until you get addicted that is and decide you need a certain type of hammock for every situation.

BC

More worried about the cost of insulating my bottomside….

Nate,

With a double bottom hammock you can use you existing self-inflating or ccf pad.

You're never going to get it right the first time anyway, unless you buy a Warbonnet Blackbird and a MacCat Tarp.

Did you notice the Speers currently for sale on here? Buy that, get you a cheap tarp, and a cheap CCF pad and you'd be good to go through the summer. You can figure out what you like and don't like before you spend real money.

Kickass quilts are a cheap alternative to down, using climasheild green – they are designed to fit Hennessey – but John says on his website that he is confident they will work on other end-gathered hammocks with an easy suspension modification. the website doesnt reflect the true cost, i am quite sure the quilts are reduced to $120, not the $180 as stated. ask John for all details: kickassquilts.com

otherwise, the Jacks R Better Bear Mtn. Bridge hammock has a flat lay design and a pad sleeve. you can use your t-rest, and a couple of ccf "wings" to get you down into the high 20's without any issue of moisture. in the Bridge, using a pad actually makes the hammock seem larger.

*note that in a hammock, an inflatable pad should be 'barely' inflated. a BA aircore or a Exped Downmat pad should be inflated to about 3/4" thick. a t-rest should be opened and allowed to self inflate, and then release air in hammock to get the right "feel". Think of a pad in a hammock like a water balloon.. try sitting on it, and it shoots out from under you. of course, a pad sleeve helps this issue. I dont believe in the case of either style pads that this reduces the R value. It may, but i havent seen evidence is what I mean. CCF pads can come in a wide selection. I have a local Volara (poker table foam) dealer that wants a mere $7 a yard at 60" long for the 3/8 size. If I were to buy 2 yards, id have two 30" wide pads at 72" long. For only $14.
check your local upholstery retailer for anything of this sort..its called 2A Volara.
You may find Hennessey Hammocks and ENO in most retail shops, but those "in the know" dont bother with such large scale mainstream production flops, they choose the Warbonnet Blackbird. Ok, take that last statement with tongue in cheek, but seriously the Warbonnet Blackbird is the shiznit!
(Tom, dont forget, no BB is fully equipped without a Te-Wa underquilt!)

also, you wont have to spend tons of money to get the "hang" of hammocking. this first pic is of my $20 hammock, a $10 foam pad (army surplus) and a homemade tarp (severely undersized..) but hey, i was hanging! this was August of '07 and my first useable set-up. I have gone to ground once since then and that was researched and planned.. (no hammocks allowed in GC-or so it seems) the point is, for under $75 i was hangin'

the second pic is my current setup, the Blackbird single layer, under a spinnaker MacCat tarp. The blue underquilt is made by me, which im also making in small batches for others. a more "professional" approach.

if you can remember, i used to make and sell cat cut tarps to many of the BPL members.. and sleeping under a tarp on the ground is exaclty how i started sleeping under a tarp above the ground.. just an example of backpacking evolution. Funny, we spent the past million years trying to leave the trees and all these chimps trying to get back into them.. lol!

Nate, et al,

One has to screw up pretty badly to get an under quilt wet on a hammock under an adequately sized and pitched tarp. In several hundred nights nights of hammock camping, most in the rain, I've never gotten it wet…. I would add that if you check the archives at Hammockforums.net and Whiteblaze.net you will find this is an oft discussed point and that no one has ever significantly wet an under quilt.

As to the cost of hammock gear and UQs in particular, it is quite comparable to qualty traditional ground set ups…. Three season hammock camp will go about $770….Darn few similiar quality Tents,pads, bags will come in below that figure.

Interesting thing about quality is that you usually get what you pay for….

Transitioning to hammocks is like a pick up truck driver transitioning to a motor cycle…. the cycle is just the start….Helmet, jacket,boots,rain suit etc….But if you want the freedom, style, culture of "riding" you gear up and get it right….. And, even when you are all set up for motor cycling, 99 percent don't get rid of their truck.

Remember that i'm biased but these are verifiable facts and a reasonable analogy.

Pan

sorry if I'm hijacking the thread here… was wondering if any folks in the know can tell me if i'm on the right track here.
looking to hang, and thinking of the blackbird or jrB bridge. not sure tarpwise, maybe a MacCat or homemade or Siltarp2>>>>
i tried hanging a few years ago but I've problem shoulders now and need as much move around space as possible or possibly a more stable flat space like the bridge hammock. I'm using a long IAC and various ccf pads and i'm thinking of making or buying a quilt later in the summer.
anything i should consider before taking the plunge??
cheers
baz

I think a bridge style hammock would be a good fit for your needs. Some of the commercially available bridge hammocks have had people reporting a bit of shoulder squeeze, but that may not apply to you. Depending on your size, you might want to consider having someone build you a custom ultralight one. Te-wa has built a few really nice custom bridge hammocks.