Sleeping bag delima

Despite the obvious warmth and weight advantages of down, one of my favorite things about switching to down was the compressibility and packed size of down bags. No longer did I have to shimmy and squeeze my bag into my pack or have to place it in to a space-hogging vertical position.

As to the moisture question, there is no doubt that you have to be more careful with a down bag to avoid getting it wet — and this is not exclusive to direct water contact. I store my down bag and down sleeping pad in drybags to avoid direct water contact inside my pack. However, I also give a dry wipe and allow time for my sleeping bag to air out from the perspiration I left inside it while sleeping — this is especially important to me when using a drybag for storage.

In regards to durability, the shell fabric used for most lightweight down bags does feel very flimsy to the touch. I can't speak to the durability of the shells, but by using common sense and care I have not had any problems with rips or down escaping the bag.

I am also a cold sleeper and I have found the temperature rating on my bag to be reliable. I use the Marmot Hydrogen, rated at 30 F, and I have been toasty warm in it down to 34 degrees, but I also have yet to push it any lower than that As with synthetic bags though, it's always good to read user reviews of down bags in regards to the stated temperature rating given by the manufacturer — especially when claims of sub-30 are given.

Never been to Alaska, but I see no reason why down would not be advantageous to synthetic up there.

Finally, if you really are concerned about moisture, some manufacturers do sell down bags with water-resistant shells. You will pay a price and weight penalty, but I have read very good things about such bags even performing well in flooded tents. I suppose you could find such a bag rated at 15 F that weighs less than 3lb. but I haven't researched it myself.

Like you, I was very hesitant to go from synthetic to a down sleeping bag.

I am very paranoid about getting my bag wet, as I am a cold sleeper too.

You should think about getting the Helium EQ vs. the regular Helium. 2 Lbs 3 oz vs. 1 lb 13 oz. (2007 stats)

I the shell on the EQ is waterproof, if you seam seal it, which I have done. (If you are interested on how to do this, please let me know and I will be happy to share with you how to do it).

Last year, I had a situation where my tent collapsed in a very bad rain/wind storm (my friend's free standing tent's pole was bent by the force of the wind crushing his tent) and I had water flood my tent.

I slept in a puddle of water that was 1/2" deep with a prolite 4 sleeping pad.

It was so bad that I simply cinched the opening of the bad as tight as I could and slept curled up in a ball inside my Helium EQ.

In the morning, my pad was soaked and I looked like Han Solo in Carbonite with my tent collapsed on me with water pooling on top of me.

The exterior of my bag was completely wet…the only dry spot was the center of my sleeping pad where my code was laying.

The bag was completely dry on the inside and I was warm the whole night.

December 2007, I slept outside of a motel in Tahoe with a Mountain Laurel Designs (MLD) Poncho Tarp and MLD Soul Side Zip Bivy w/eVent top with my Helium EQ.

Temps started at midnight at 8 degrees F. and dropped to 5 degrees F by morning (5:30 am).

I applied the laying princples outlined in the BPL book and wore Forty Below Synth Booties and wore most of my clothing or laying it over my body to trap heat.

I was too hot at one point, but by morning, my head was a bit chilled, otherwise, I was comfortable.

More recently in Jan & Feb 2008, I went snow camping with the Sierra Club to learn how to build a snow trench.

Was warm enough in the trench with the Helium & Bivy that I actually had to remove clothing to not over heat.

As you can tell, I am a big on this sleeping bag, but after sleeping in a muddle puddle with it and staying warm and dry, what other test is there? :)

Hope that this helps you.

P.S. I think that my wife has the Woman's Mountain Hardwear sleeping bag that you are thinking of. We seam sealed it too. My observation is that the inside material of the Helium is silky smooth and more comfortable than hers. One negative of the Helium EQ is that it is not down proof. I am loosing one or two feathers each time that I am using it.

-Tony

My whole group of backpacking buddies & I use down sleeping bags all over Alaska. I've never had a problem or heard of one.

I personally have the MH Phantom.

Hi Cat,
I have been trying to get some ideas for a 5-6 day backpacking trip in Denali NP from May 3rd-May 9th. Any unit(s) that you can suggest? I am not sure whether the bus/shuttle runs early May, so I may be limited in how far I can get.
Thanks!
Sven

Hi tony, thanks for your reply. I was wondering if you have had any experience with condensation on the inside of the bag, due to sweating or damp clothing, or whatever. Some sites/posts I've read suggest against getting a waterproof down bag because the down can get compacted from the inside from dampness due to the shell not breathing. There was some thread that had a quote from an BPL article on backpacking in cold, wet, sustained environments that says to never have a waterproof down bag. I would tend to agree with you, however, in thinking it was a good idea!

Julia,

Good question.

Come to think of it, I have not had an issue with condensation in the bag causing a collapse of the loft of the down.

Here is something that I remember….on that trip where my tent collapsed, when the wind was blowing very hard I felt the wind go through the shell and create a small draft at the foot area.

That only could have happened if the shell was not air tight.

The Helium EQ's waterproofing is a combination of the fabric and Marmot's chemical treatment.

When I woke up that next morning with the exterior of my bag soaked, it was not beading up the water like a Nikwax treatment would…the shell was "stained" dark in color from the water, but the interior of my bag was dry and I remained warm.

Granted, this was just an overnight trip.

If I had repeated nights like that, I can not say if the waterproof shell would have held up.

Technically, if you check the Marmot website, I don't think that they will claim that it is waterproof.

Backpacker Magazine's gear review from either 2006 or 2007 referred to this bag as being waterproof if you seam sealed it, which I have done.

Having used it in the snow and sealed up in a bivy bag for a couple of nights, I have not noticed any accumulation of condensation in the bag either.

That is about all that I can tell you about the bag.

-Tony

As a hiker in Seattle, I was always hesitant to get a down bag. But I finally decided to take the plunge last year. I bought a Feathered Friends two person bag for my wife and a Montbell bag for myself. I recommend both those companies as well as Nunatuk and Western Mountaineering (along with the other companies you mentioned). Keep in mind that Marmot has been notorious for exceeding their stated weight. Of course, that may mean that the bag itself has more down (and is thus warmer). Feathered Friends has the opposite problem (their stated weights are over their actual weight). FF may have solved that problem with the latest web update. In general though, I wouldn't obsess over stated weights without asking how they achieved that weight savings. If the bag has better down, lighter shell material or a half zipper (or no zipper) then it makes sense for it to be lighter. If not, then the bag is not as warm or has less room.

I would definitely get a bag that has some waterproofing. The FF bag I bought uses a "NanoSphere" fabric which is very light, but has some water protection (and is breathable). Try and air it out as much as possible during a trip (it is amazing how much moisture can accumulate). Even with the water protection, I don't think a down bag is appropriate for every trip. I wouldn't take a down bag for a big beach trip.

I suggest looking at the Montbell stretch bags, just because the extra comfort may be worth the little extra weight.

In general, any of the bags made by any of the quality down bag manufacturers will serve you well. It will also last a really long time. Of course, it will lighten your load (and your wallet) considerably.

I read an older post that talked about condensation problems with Epic for bivy shells and that there was a study planned to look into it further. Did that ever happen? I don't see mention of it anywhere.

I live in the SE where we get our fair share of rain, and exclusively use down bags. As long as you keep them dry (or relatively dry) then you will be fine. The best things to do are to make sure the bag doesn't get wet in your pack (I put mine inside of a trash compactor bag), and that it doesn't get wet in your tent. It's going to get some condensation on it both from the air and from your body (breath and sweat) when you are sleeping, but you can take care of this with a pack towel and by just letting it air out for a little while. I cannot comment on extended rain (i.e. several days) as I just don't stay out in it if it's gonna rain that long, so there could be a concern there. Maybe someone will comment on that.

As for waterproof bag materials, I don't have a bag made with them and don't see a need for that. Most manufacturers have shell materials with a DWR on them that repel water quite well. I have 3 WM (Western Mountaineering) bags, and the one with the microfiber shell stays pretty dry. I have also noticed that since they are not waterproof they dry out rapidly in the sun, which is another good thing if you are gonna be in weather where the sun comes out occasionally.

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