Shelter: Himalayan Trekking

This reply is going to irritate a lot of people, but no matter.

If you want a serious winter alpine double-skin tent, forget the American brands. Period. Go for a European brand instead. Hilleberg, Terra-nova (UK) or similar. Some of the Scandinavian countries make very good tents.

The Europeans HAVE to handle bad weather, and they know how to make tents for those conditions. The Tunnels are especially good for bad weather. OK, they are not as light as the American tarps etc, but they work. A whole new (actually quite old!) ball game.

Cheers

I have no exprience with trekking in Himalayas yet but I plan to do a trek next month.

It is organised by Youth Hostels Association of India. They organise regular treks in Himalayas. You can visit their website here:
http://www.yhaindia.org/Transaction/AdventurePrograms/ProgramDetails.aspx

I couldnt find any info on their website concerning foreign nationals. Give them a call if you are interested.

Thanks for the replies guys. I am doing a little research but it always helps to hear first hand knowledge. For Roger, my only concern with hoop tents is them being non free standing and quite long which I imagine makes site selection a bit harder. I have no experience with these style of shelter so I would love to hear back from you on real world use. I suppose you could tie off to heavy rocks but how strong of a pitch do you get this way? I understand these tents rely on high tension on the guylines to achieve stability. What stakes do you recommend? Do I need to carry an assortment of styles of pegs?

Roger,

I agree, Hilleberg tents may be the world's best but Black Diamond and The North Face expedition tents are well tested and fare very well in extreme conditions. Remember, The North Face was making excellent expedition tents before the others.

Eric

If you are staying below the snow line (as most do…) don't use a tent made out of Epic.
About Nepal
Get a guide (not a porter). In Nepal they charge about $5 per day plus $50 at the end of a 10-20 day trek. There is a bit of Maoist activity going on in some areas, so you will be safer with a guide and you get the chance to learn more about the local customs. At the Maoist "check points/toll gates" we paid a fraction of what was charged to others. (BTW, a laborer gets about $2 per day)
Most there will either stay in lodges (plentiful and cheap, again about $3-5 per night) or (a minority) will use tents and pitch them next to the lodges and eat there. Buy a meal and a few drinks and they will light a fire for you.
Hot water means "warmer than sleet" often very re-invigorating.
Even at the warmest time the temperature can drop down to freezing early in the morning down to 2000m or so. Above 3000m it will be around that or below most mornings.(4-6AM)
I used my Contrail higher up (to test it…) from 2000 to 32000m, later back on the trail I used the provided Nepalese tent (A frame , double layer) , but we always where in relatively sheltered areas. (not from the huge rainfalls)
Franco
BTW, most Nepalese are just lovely, but it helps to be a Kiwi that resides in Australia…
keep a low profile.

Thanks so much Franco. That is very helpful information as it applies to Nepal. I am definitely questioning even taking a tent as I will be travelling other areas before and after and the tent will be dead weight and bulk. With elections in Nepal coming up to abolish the monarchy and a virtual lockdown in Tibet this trip may not be possible for a while. Still curious about others experiences in this part of the world.

Hi Ryan

> concern with hoop tents is them being non free standing and quite long
Yes, they are a bit longer than a tarp and do rely especially on two stakes at each end. That said, I have pitched mine on sheet rock many times by using rocks and sticks to make hold-downs. How many rocks? That depended on the expected weather!

The tunnel tent is widely acknowledged as the best tent for severe weather, short of an antarctic tent. But you don't want to have to carry an antarctic tent! One major reason for their stability is that the hoops or poles are much shorter than on a dome tent. This makes them stiffer, less likely to deflect and much stronger.

I have made and used all sorts of tents, including domes and tunnels. For the last 15 years my wife and I have exclusively used 2-man tunnel tents. We have experienced most sorts of weather in them – some of it a trifle windy …

The idea that they rely on high tension in the guylines is wrong. They do rely on having secure stakes at the two ends, but the guylines to the poles will have the same tension as in a dome. Note that the tension required for the ridge line of many tarp-tents is just as high as anything on a tunnel.

Stakes – yes, I carry an assortment and use the most appropriate ones at the ends – they go in first. I carry some BMW Ti wires – they really are great. I carry some home-made variants on the Easton tubular stake – just a bit thinner and lighter. In the snow I change to carrying snow stakes, but that is a whole new ball game. On sand I put my stakes away and use long dead sticks driven into the sand – sometimes two per anchor.

Cheers

Hi Eric

Curiously, TNF make and sell a good tunnel tent in the UK but do not sell it in America.

Yes, I am biased. So many of these well-known American brands seem (to me) to be focused on selling big volumes of very simple tents made in volume in China. Their market these days seems (to me) to be the novice walker who is not going to get severe weather. Imho they are now trading (quite profitably) on their reputation from years ago. Are today's designs as good as the earlier ones? It doesn't seem that way to me.

For example look at the Missing Link. An A-frame tent! We grew out of those in the 70s! Blimey!

Cheers

Hey Ryan,
I spent a month (May) in Nepal last year and trekked through the Khumbu Region – Up to base camp and over to Gokyo (18 days). It was an absolute blast.
At that time, the weather was no worse then back home. You could get away with any 3 season shelter. I even saw a Cloudburst at base camp – The gentlemen was from Boston and he stayed 2 nights there.
However, the ground can be very rocky in places. To the point where I wouldn't even want to pitch a tent. My recomendation to most (traveling in the same region as I did, and at the same time), is to bring a light shelter, and if a storm brews or you have an issue, just head to one of the lodges. Also, there are many sheltered areas if you look.
Another note, I arrived in Nepal, bought a map of the region and was on my way. I met several people who had guides and porters, and they were having an equally good time – all have pros and cons.
Have a blast and take lotsa pictures!!!

Thanks again guys. Roger, the idea about tension came from the Stephenson's tents but guylines was the wrong choice of words. The tension would be on the front and rear stakes as you say and not the guylines. I have had a great experience with my Sierra Designs mountaineering tent in some terrible conditions but you do pay a price in living space and weight campared to the tunnel tents. The Lightwave tents look nice and I have been eyeing the Nallo 2 as well.

Steven, thanks for sharing your experience. I have heard a lot about different options of porters and lodges but I'm glad to hear from someone who has done an independent trek. My girlriend will be along so I want to find the best approach with safety and comfort taken into account. Franco had mentioned some of the Maoist checkpoints and added safety and communication with a porter or guide. What is your take on that? For kicks, if you look at the photo gallery on the Tarptent site you can see a few people have taken them to Everest base camp.

Hi,

We did a ten day hike up to 5000m from Manali in Northern India. We hired a local guide (Tibetan shop but Nepali guide) and used horses to carry everything, and hired all the gear. The only things we had were boots, which were unnecessary- you can do it in good running shoes. It wasn't that expensive, and saved having to carry a tent etc around India for the rest of the stay. The tent and equipment did the job fine.

The walking was fantastic- high altitude desert following valleys of glaciers. Incredible lakes and no people. Go in August and escape the heat and the monsoon. It was a life changing experience for me and my partner, and in the end we decided we could just keep on walking and never stop.

The locals had big tarps, which is what I would take if I went back- the tent was fine, but blew around a lot- I have a Golite Shangri-la 3 and would use that, and put all the gear to the windward side to insulate the draught. That's what the locals were doing.

Sometimes we camped next to huts which were run by Tibetans serving tea, but other times we camped near lakes and on ridges. Sites were pretty rocky, so we used to tie the guys to big rocks and use them for insulation against the wind as well.

The only bit of gear I regretted not having was a Thermarest.

Another tent maker to consider would be Exped, but a tarp would give you more flexibility. You can always move the pole to the windward side for supposrt and sleep together if the tarp was big enough.

cheers, and good hiking up there.

Ryan,
I never came into contact with the Maoists when I was there…they either didn't find me, weren't there, or I didn't notice them :). People I met there that did the Annapurna circuit said they had to pay a few bucks – but it was a booth set up and you simply lined up and payed – they even give you a reciept!
I think if you were to hire a guide, it should be more for learning about the culture and land then finding your way. Hire a porter if you or your girlfriends pack is a bit heavy. Remember, the price of it is very small, and it helps the locals make some money. They work very hard for their money. I have an aquaintance who has been to Nepal 7 times and hired the same guide everytime – he doesn't need one, but he considers him a friend and enjoys his company. Maybe you will build a similar relationship.
As Franco stated, the people are very nice. I had no problems the entire time there – in fact, if I ever went off track, I would simply ask which way the next village was and they would point. Maybe I was lucky.

How can you get lost with signs like this?

Ryan
On my last couple of trips to Nepal I have used just a tarp (3 m x 3 m) for 3 of us or an Oware 11 x 11 foot Pyramid for 5 people. Very light. Generally Nepalese campsites are open grassy yak pastures up to 5500 m and finding space is rarely an issue. In rough steep country there are often overhanging rock shelters for extra protection. On the popular trekking routes there are lodges every night and in the other areas if the weather is stormy you can often retreat to stay in someone's house. Compared to New Zealand at least, the weather is cold but rarely stormy or wet. (post monsoon). So my suggestion is to use something minimalist unless you will be camping over 5500 m. Something with full walls is nice because you often wake up to find a crowd staring at you outside areas where trekkers are common. A floor is not generally necessary.
Stu

Thanks so much Steve and Stuart. Nothing beats first hand accounts when thinking about a trip like this. Great to hear I can get by with a light compact shelter as I will be carrying it around and not using it most of the time. Can't imagine going to a place like the Himalayas and not having the option of camping out away from the lodges and crowds. I'm definitely keen on hiring a guide to get the experience of the culture and support the local economy.

I have gone through this tent run-around with my trip to Patagonia. It's hard to not to carry a shelter for the worst possible scenario. I heard all the stories of horrific winds and then found sheltered camps all along the routes. I did choose to camp a few times in exposed places because I had the tent to do it but could have used a tarp in the established camps.

Stuart, I love NZ and it's people and have been twice. I hope you get out tramping often to enjoy your beautiful country. Post some trip reports if you get the chance. I'm sure you have heard the stories of the Dusky Track which I did last year. Bought the maps and rented the PLB and heard the warnings from all the hut wardens about helicopter rescues only to have a perfectly uneventful and beautiful trip.