Sub 1 lb. XUL : Possible or BS?

[Matthew Robinson]

anything is possible….it all depends on the conditions and the person. aloha!

[Mike Barney]

As several have noted, it depends upon your definition, the climate, length of stay, and a lot of other parameters.
If it's 70 – 90 for a low at night (not uncommon in the summer SW US and other parts of the world), no bag is needed.
It doesn't rain, so no tarp or tent is required for many nights because of the lack of clouds, and many parts of the desert sands are pretty soft to sleep on. If you don't count clothes, total weight is a hot spark and nano-light, 2 oz maybe? From there you can add a cuben tarp for a little rain, or a 6 oz silk liner for a sleeping bag when it gets cool. Still under 18 oz.

Several here have done 'survival campouts, where you only took a pocket knife, and made your shelter and bed out of grasses and branches. 4 oz tops. I guess it's all in your definitions.

It's pretty obvious what 'stuff weighs, and there's no silver bullet, so I wouldn't expect much resilency in an 18 oz package.
Mike

P.S. Does it count if your spouse or buddy carries all the gear?;)

[Art Sandt]

The climate for the original example is a bit different from summertime Arizona, but you do raise a really interesting point. Does it count if your spouse or buddy carries all the gear? Hmm. For some reason I thought the person under scrutiny did the John Muir Trail hike solo, but maybe he wasn't solo at all. That adds a whole new dimension to this conversation. After all, two people can share a shelter, a sleeping bag, and even bolster an under-rated sleeping bag by simply being a heat-generating nearby body. And I think if all the gear that possibly could be "duo" were duo, and they split the weight between them, they could get a lot more function out of a sub-1 lb load than if one had gone solo.

[mark henley]

As an intellectual exercise, it certainly can be fun to pull together a group sub 1lb list with all the options.

I am concerned, however, that someone without the experience to use it could get in trouble using it.

So …. with the condition listed that don't try this at home kids, at least until you've worked your way down to this level, then why not pull a group list together?

Parameters: Temps between 20 and 80, rain possible, light snow possible, elevation between 7,000 and 10,000 feet for one list, and normal AT elevation max of 4400 for the other list.

Must include at least one hot meal per day. Must be able to sleep at night and hike during the day, at least 6 hours sleeping at night at one stretch.

Must carry at least 1 L of water at a time.

Must be warm, well fed, well hydrated, and be able to carry everything you need on your back, or in other words, no survival shelters along the way.

[Aaron Sorensen]

I've sure missed a lot on this subject.

I regards to the difference of racing and hiking, you have to remember that doing the JMT Unsupported has even a more true sence of "backpacking than the typical hiker doing it.
You are doing one of the hardest trails from start to finish with nothing but what's on your back and the water from the streams.
Also you are walking (O.K. very fast), but are still walking 90% of the way.
You are also out there, alone, with no help, and half the time with no one else around.
Yes, it's a race, but only in you mind. You are still out there doing the exact trail that everyone else is, but just not taking any breaks and have the ability to move faster by not carrying as much.

The other difference is that you would fail at attempting any type of speed on the JMT with a pound or 2.
As soon as you get to a point were you are tiered enough not to care or have to be worried about things going worng, the 1 lb would be a disaster waiting to happen.

The only way I could possibly see this being done is if you where a VERY warm sleeper.

[mark henley]

So … what's the lightest you think one could safely go?

[Richard D.]

I've been giving more thought to the "sub 1 lb." challenge and actually intend to try it out later this summer in Crimea, which has a warm temperate mountainous climate. I believe the list below is functionally practical for multi-day trips in dry summer climates with nighttime temps down to 60 F. I also have a second, sub-2 lb. list with more nighttime insulation that is good down to 50 F and uses a conventional bivy.

Big 3:
Minimalist MYOG backpack (silnylon/tyvek/plastic) 2 oz
Emergency blanket bivy 3.8 oz
Silk sleeping bag liner 4.2 oz
MYOG sleeping pad 2 oz
BPL headnet .3 oz

subtotal: 12.3 oz
Note that the bivy is waterproof.

Extra clothing: none. Assumed are shorts and a T-shirt during the day. Also assumed is that I will be carrying a Chrome Dome in my hand all the time for sun protection, so this is not part of pack weight.

Kitchen:
plastic spoon/fork from airplane: negligible
2.5 l. Platypus (less is impractical) 1.3 oz

subtotal: 1.3 oz
Assumed is eating uncooked food (it's the heat of summer).

Miscellaneous:
Map (cut or xeroxed down to size) .4 oz
Razor blade and tweezers (for tick removal) .1 oz
Photon Freedom without clips .4
Toiletries (including contact lens case and solution) 1 oz
A few matches and emergency first-aid items, and also a few aquamira tablets .5 oz

subtotal: 2.4 oz

Grand total: 16.0 oz

[Richard D.]

(sorry, double post)

[mark henley]

This list looks good! Have you given thought to different insulation?

I've been giving this a lot of thought lately …..

cuben fiber 6 x 4 poncho is 2.7 oz,
cuben fiber 2.5 oz basis weight xp quilt (4 x 6) (2.5 yards of XP and 5 yards of cuben) should come in at about 8 oz (Arron would give us a better idea) designed with a head hole.

Platy 1.3
spoon negligible

12 oz subtottal

Cuben fiber stuff sack with 2 in gross grain straps 1 oz
Cut down polycrow groundsheet .7
Torso sized Thinlight pad .7
Photon light on a cord around neck – not part of pack weight
Basic first aid and micropure tablets – .5

4 Lazer Nano tent stakes and a little spectra line for guying out the half poncho to make a bivy of the cuben quilt .2

nanoseeum headnet .3

cuben food bag,mini biner, and spectra cord for bear baging .6

Right at 16 oz.

Thoughts?

[Richard D.]

Yes. I have my thoughts about the absolute minimum weight of insulating material needed for different temperatures (these numbers are just ballpark):

85 F: 0 oz
80 F: 1 oz
70 F: 4 oz
60 F: 7 oz
50 F: 10 oz
40 F: 13 oz
30 F: 16 oz

So, to go for sub 1 lb. kit, you'd really have to aim for temperatures above 60 or at least 50, otherwise you'd be spending all your free ounces on insulation. If you use something with a synthetic or down layer inside, obviously, that becomes more and more effective the lower you go. At the temperatures I'm thinking of (60-70 F), one of the biggest tasks is simply to hold in warm air and divert wind, and that's why I think a reflective bivy would be more effective than a quilt of equal weight. The silk layer is just to add several degrees. I'm not sure you could get the same warmth from a quilt of the same weight. An 8 oz quilt (say, down) would have 6 oz of Pertex Quantum and 2 oz of down, or maybe 5.5 and 2.5 oz, respectively. It might end up being more vulnerable to wind, too. It would basically have to be like the Montbell line of UL down liner pants and shirts, but nobody makes them.

[Richard D.]

Mark, just noticed your additions.

I think some specifics depend on the area you're hiking in. From your list I can see you're counting on more rain and available water, and probably more soft ground cover!:) I think for those conditions your set-up is pretty good. Since your quilt is cuben fiber, you might be able to use it as emergency rain protection during the night (depending on the climate) and "invest" the 2.7 oz gained from the poncho in additional insulation or a softer sleeping pad:) Or, you could cut a longer piece of the polycro and sort of make a head shield, with the rest of your body covered by the quilt.

Another idea (probably impractical) is to take a piece of Climashield and stick it in the emergency blanket bivy, saving the weight of two layers of whatever fabric. This would allow one to invest more weight in the insulation.

I wonder if there's any way to have a sub 1 lb. setup without using clammy vabor barriers on balmy summer nights:)

[te – wa]

man, doing the JMT sub 1 would take some beating… I see no mention of hat, sunscreen, or umbrella in the original discussion. Not to mention other necessities.
I cant see why anyone would risk extreme discomfort to save a pound. I mean, If I can carry 1 lb I can carry 2.
2 pounds is reaallly light. This discussion had me thinking about going to the lowest weight I can, with the material/gear that I have under my ownership (no fantasy gear list) so I came up with something that I might be able to use for a summer trip in the 6-7K elevations of Arizona. This would be for a weekend, overnight trip only with temps expected to be the extreme of 90° down to 35°
Now consider, for a moment that I wont experience the low 20's like the JMT but then again, we have the problem of little reliable water sources.

Zpacks custom blast 1600 cu in 3.97
trimmed GG thinlite 3.13
polycryo ground sheet 1.31
momentum and down quilt 35° 12.7
golite wisp windshirt 2.75
petzl e+lite 1
1L platy knockoff .835
first aid (2 safety pin, aquamira tabs, whistle, matches, vitamin I, 10' spectra cord, spinnaker stuff sack) 2.35
t.p. (luxury?) 1

29.045 ounces

no cooking done
no spare socks
nothing worn in pockets except id card
shelter/bivy not needed
in case of light rain use cuben pack and polycryo as makeshift bivy. Peace!

I cant see going with anything less unless I used the "fantasy gear list" game. Doing the JMT under 18oz is hardcore, that dude has some big cajones!

[Author]

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