Encapsulated fibers = low maintenance UL functionality?

As an owner of a Ready Mix, a Houdini and an Epic fabric Cloudveil Anarok, I can state that there are definite differences in the fabrics- but whether the relevant difference (that one/some are encapsulated while others are not) I have no idea. I'd ask Patagonia- if you do let us know what they say.
This might be of interest to you:
http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/stash/patagonia-testing.html

I have to agree with the link that Dryskin is crazy breathable, durable and looks great.

The major difference in the mentioned jackets fabrics is that the Ready Mix has a textured interior, I assume to move moisture… whereas the Houdini and Epic are similar on both sides. The Ready Mix is not very abrasion resistant- mine has wear from my sternum strap, the velcro tabs on the cuffs, and a bit from hipbelts. Note that I am nice to it, and don't use it for rock but it is a climbing shell. The other fabrics are much more slippery, perhaps enhancing abrasion resistance by avoiding it.

All of these jackets are thin enough and breathable enough to use in warmer temperatures as a wind shell or a casual jacket. In my experience, the wind resistance and breathability of these fabrics is very close. However, there is a "flap" factor where the lighter shells flap badly in high winds, often opening gaps and letting wind under the shell- and just be loudly annoying.

As for water resistance- well, it's better than some other fabrics, but nothing spectacular. I have no idea how people use these in any kind of rain for more than 20 minutes…
My ready Mix is my ice climbing and winter packing shell and gets washed about twice a year. This is because water fails to bead up after a few outings, especially on the shoulders or other areas that see abrasion against packs, etc. I have had similar experiences with the other fabrics- good for maybe half a dozen trips before a washing is in order. I have noticed that these fabrics are much easier to renew the DWR than others, so in that sense they are easier to maintain- just wash and dry on very low heat. I have not yet had to apply a DWR treatmentr aside from proper washing, which is essential to keep these fabrics performing well.

As for detergent- I am not going to go try it to find out, but I have used pure soap, Sportwash, Revivex and Ecover stuff for delicates with good results.

As a last note, the lowest maintenance jacket i have is a Frogg Toggs as I don't think it relies on DWr at all. It is of course ugly.

You might also want to check out Paramo and maybe look into the NanoSphere treatment use on some Schoeller stuff.

Edit: The Ready Mix is winter-worthy due to features: helmet compatible hood, three pockets that are always accessable, cuffs that have great coverage, and is very fast drying. Stev House climsb insane stuff in a Houdini. I have used the Epic anarok for a few climbs on local ice, and it was fine but for the fact that the slippery fabric allowed it to get pulled out from under my harness much easier than the Ready Mix. So, there is a difference in the feel and the hand of the fabrics, and the jacket's features- perhaps moreso than the differences in the fabrics. Ok, I'll shutup now.

Personally, I'd like to know more about Schoeller's Nanosphere. I'm suprised, given the few reviews of it that I've read, that it hasn't gotten more press yet.

I'm hoping that BPL will do a comprehensive review of it soon.

From what I've read, it one-ups silicon-encapsulated fabrics in terms of durability and convenience, in that it repels water, but also dirt, katsup, honey, etc. So it doesn't get wet, and it doesn't get dirty – so it doesn't need to be washed very often. And since Schoeller claims a 40+ wash lifespan, one might get 10+ years out of a garment.

Here's a video demonstration of the stuff (about 3/4 of the way into the vid):

http://basecampcomm.com/westcomb_pr/posts/view/1

MEC just brought out their Ferrata 2 Hoody in Dryskin Extreme(2 being Nanosphere apparently). A basic, affordable hooy:

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442621808&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302699337&bmUID=1205065661329

But, I haven't even used the stuff, so I'd be interested in hearing if I'm making too much of it.

Thanks Michael for all your commentary, it's very valuable. I'm truly surprised that A) you don't find the water resistance of these fabrics to be anything special, and B) your Ready Mix seems so fragile. First, I thought that Epic's primary offer over regular old DWR is that it offers MORE. I mean don't they make some winter shelters out of this stuff? I feel like I've been let down if the water resistance is not noticeably better than the rest of our lot of wind shirts. And the Ready Mix isn't durable? A climbing shell?

How very confusing!

Anybody else have second opinions on these guys?

I have indeed looked at the Ferrata 2 hoodie, mainly because the Ferrata 1 got good reviews from everybody, and Dryskin is also widely praised as, you know, THE soft shell fabric. Durable, good-looking, water-resistant and breathable. My suspicion though in this search has been about Dryskin's reliance on DWR. I don't know much about it though, so I'd love somebody to weigh in on Dryskin's long-term water-repellence and whether the fabric requires reapplication of DWR, or frequency of sport-washing needed to restore the DWR. Oh yeah, and if anybody knows anything good about Nanosphere, that would help a lot too. The Ferrata 2 is supposed to have it.

Mike, your not needing to reapply the DWR to your encapsulated pieces is, at least, relieving.

Anybody else know anything important? Where's Richard Nisley when you need him? I guess not everyone checks this forum every other minute . . .

I don't think the Houdini or the Ready Mix from Patagonia are encapsulated fibers like Epic.

Ian,

You asked a complicated question.

Ah . . . now that's an answer! Thanks a lot Richard, I think that's just about everything I want to know, should go a long way toward helping me make a good decision.

Was the quip about the Ready Mix being formal wear a nice way of saying you think it's a useless piece? Looking at your chart and comparing the performance features between the Houdini and Ready Mix, it seems a fair conclusion . . .

So if the Ready Mix isn't especially durable, and if the wind and water resistance are the same as the Houdini . . . is the weight difference simply for the sake of stretch and more pockets? That seems . . . lame. Out of character for Patagonia, even. Am I missing something?

Richard never disappoints!

I have two Houdinis. One is stealth grey, the other is don't-shoot-me orange. Their performance is without equal, but a word of caution on durability – these things are light! I baby mine. They seem pretty tough for their weight, and I haven't had any problems, but just the same they are thin. And as far as fashion goes, mine is crammed into a pack pocket when not in use, so it is sort of permanently crinkled. Doesn't look bad when on, but it's not the sleek sporty fashion look of a winter-weight softshell.

Ian,

I was serious in that the soft shell fabric used in the Ready Mix, pants, etc. looks like formal wear. I wouldn't use this fabric for backpacking (too much weight and too slow drying after getting wet) or bushwhacking (too low durability), but for a road trip, ship cruise, walking around town, for skiing, parties, etc. it is functional, doesn't wrinkle easily, very comfortable (stretch), and projects a polished GQ image.

Do you have any experience with or spec knowledge of Schoeller Nanosphere?

Joshua,

Roger Caffin is our resident expert for these types of questions. He should be the first one solicited for this type of information and I yield to his opinion if we differ.

I only have spec knowledge of this product. ”The basis of this consumer friendly, environmentally-compatible innovation is a resilient micro-rough surface structure, created at chemo physical levels in nanometric dimensions.”

For the general population, I think it is an excellent surface treatment as well as for a backpacker’s sleeping bag fabric or bivy. For backpacker’s clothing or shoes, used occasionally for bushwhacking, I have strong reservations. Theoretically, the nanometer thickness surface treatment will be quickly abraded away and cease to function. My guess is that this would occur in much less than 100 miles of cumulative bushwhacking.

If you can find on eBay the older Patagonia Krushell or Essenshell jackets they are great. Not ultralight but similar in weight to the Ready Mix.

I sold my old Krushell and now wondering if that was a mistake with the durability of the Ready Mix.

I am headed to NM in the AM to ski and then CO to chase some Fourteeners so I will find out.

A few Krushells on eBay right now.

I feel the need to defend the Ready Mix as it is my favorite piece among the many Gore-Tex, Schoeller, Powershield, and nylon jackets I own.

As Richard stated, the drape of the fabric is very good. It is supposedly stretchy, but nothing like schoeller wovens, though the fabric is soft enough that you do not notice this. As he also said, it is essentially windproof.

As we both said- it is not highly durable- and I think this needs clarification.

My jacket has three years of use, and has some light abrasion on the cuffs (due to the velcro) and the chest due to my sternum strap. That's pretty much it… I said this was not very durable given my use of climbing. It is not as abrasion resistant as Schoeller Dryskin Extreme for instance, but breathes just as well and blocks wind much better. It also dries very fast- I have to disagree with Richard on this. It dries as well as Dryskin Extreme 3Xdry, but blocks wind much better. It is also lighter.

Note that my Epic shell has a huge swath of damage due to the vlecro closures on REI Taku pants- many fabrics get abraded, and I think the Ready Mix is just as durable as EPIC in this regard.
It's a fantastic jacket that is my go-to piece for multi-day winter outings and ice cragging. I am buying a second in case they discontinue the piece (like the great Essenshells).

Thanks for the great commentary guys, definitely valuable. I've got a Houdini and a WT Epic in the mail . . . I'll figure out whether I need one of the other heavier jackets mentioned later.

Roger, any insight you can share on NanoSphere?