WHITE BOX STOVE IMPROVED

>There are getting to be a lot of "White Box Clones" out there now and from what I've heard they are having a hard time keeping the top seam between the two halves from leaking because rivets just don't do a real good job or the top edges get bent during use. Our old WB model stove didn't have a leak problem because of the way we finished them after installing the rivets. But apparently some of the other clones haven't figured that out yet.<

You're right Bill, SOME of the clones haven't figured it out. You can tell just by looking at their pictures. The last step is so easy and simple, it gets overlooked by the "Saturday Night Specials".

Looks great Bill, nice work! Evolution–it's a beautiful thing.

What are the dimensions and weight of the new model, if you don't mind?

Thanks.

Weight wise the new model is probably only a couple grams less but my scale isn't that accurate.

Height wise the new model is approximately 1/8 inch shorter.

Bill in MT

As Bill knows, I have several of his stoves that I have lent to and demonstrated to several friends and acquaintances. So apart from my own use, I have seen many boils from them but never a leak from the rim. The new design does look very "clean".
Franco

Thanks for the Kudos Franco… how is summer in Australia… here in Montana it is snowing right now….. Can't wait to get into some good backpacking weather..

Bill in MT

This stove would be perfect if it had a strong simmer capacity.

As it is, I can't use it as my meals violently boil over.

If only I could simmer with a really weak flame for 5 minutes or so.

Nice work Bill! Hey, maybe in a few years, my old riveted design will become a priceless collectable! ;)

Pedro,
you make a good point. The WB boils fast and then it speeds up…
Works well for my style. I just use less than 1 ounce of fuel, bring my food to a boil and wait for the flame to go out, usually one or two minutes after that (depending on wind and air/water temperature). As soon as it stops boiling I shove the pot inside a cozy ( at the moment a foil bag that my dry cat food comes in) and wrap that with whatever spare clothing I have. Depending on what I am cooking 10 to 20 minutes later it is ready and still hot.
Works well with my titanium pot because the food does not stick to it that way.
That gives me time for the sunset or to fiddle with my nighttime set up.

Bill
I have just received some pics from Montana. Lots of snow. Some go camping because of it ….
Franco

Jason
I have some priceless ideas. Yep, no one wants to pay for them.

Franco,
That's what makes them "Price-less", hee, hee. ;)

Now that Gossamer Gear has discontinued this stove, where can a person buy the improved version (Piragis.com?)?

I carry it on my website – I have the new ones in stock (first one to get them!)

At this time Piragis do not have the new version but the next time they reorder they will get them.

Speaking of Gossamer Gear, because Glen Van Peski and Grand Sibel were only operating GG as a part time business and they have chosen to go back to "the basics". You will notice that they have discontinued a lot of products and are mainly carrying products that they design. This was a business decision because there just wasn't enough time in the day to work their regular jobs and still maintain GG. I think you'd call it growing pains.

To get the new WB model see Sarah @ freezerbagcooking.com

While you are there get a couple of her pot cozies too.

Bill Ballowe, Owner
White Box Stoves

Thanks Sarah & Bill. Sarah, I will probably order from you this weekend.

"I am also making the stove a little shorter for better stability and at the same time it will hold a little more fuel."
Bill,
In addition to the above quote, you also mention in another post that the new model is 1/8" shorter. Has the width/diameter changed? I currently pack "the old style" in between the two halves of a bush buddy stove. I'm wondering how this new shape will fit into the other stove. Would you happen to have a bush buddy? If I knew how to attach a photo, I could show how it packs so well. If the new one still packs snug and doesn't rattle, then it's another perk and incentive to the newer one. I have no complaints with my current stove, but am always looking for improvements. Thanks for the many hot lunches!
Thanks.
Chris

The stove width is the same as the old model….

Bill in MT

I just had to add this to the discussion. On ebay I received a message from a guy named Freefall or blowit420. The message is as follows:

Dear billinmt2,

Good looking stove you have there. But you are missing a few critical details. First- $20? You gotta be kidding me mate! They can make them (alcohol stoves)cheap! Second, if they don't want to make them, $20? Bigger balls than I've got mate! Third, you give no weight. If you knew anything about backpacking then you'd know that hikers GAS about weight! Fourth, your Youtube link doesn't work and finally, my stove weighs less than an ounce (stove, windscreen and pot stand)and will cook two packs of Ramen OR 1 pack of Mac and Cheese in less than 10 minutes using less than an ounce of fuel. Mine doesn't have, what you call it?, a billet roll, whatever, mine was made in my living room and has traveled right about 10,000 miles without the slightest leak or failure. Best of all, I give this knowledge away for free even though I have the design patented in the US. The result? Happy hikers the world over!
Just so you know (in case you didn't figure it out, I will never buy from you.) Freefall

– blowit420

First off cut and paste the youtube link and it works but I guess he hasn't learned how to do that yet.

For what it is worth this guy has never sold a stove or anything else on Ebay which tells me he has no idea of values or has any marketing experience. But all you have to do is read his blog and realize that he is the self proclaimed expert when it comes to alcohol stoves. JMHO

Bill in MT aka billinmt2

Ha..I find that amusing. What's so special about his stove? What's his blog link? I'd like to see what kind of knowledge he's giving away.

It's a good thing he's giving it away too cause I would never buy from such a jerk.

Seriously… what a jerk. No one put a gun to his head to make him buy the stove. I make my own stoves too… but who cares? tons of ultralighters make their own stuff?… and $20 is a perfectly fine price. I think the labour alone… making it… packing it… shipping it… etc… is actually probably worth a lot more than 20 dollars.

I agree…the cost of raw materials, labor, marketing, collecting funds and filling orders, answering emails, supply flow, income taxes, etc….that alone should be more than $20! I can't help thinking this every time I try to sell something second hand online. It's a lot of work and time before you've even made the stove, and it's a very finely crafted piece of gear too. Much more robust than your average pop-can stove, and doesn't require a pot stand.

Saying of "Sure you could make it, but would you?".

Over the years of selling at farmer markets and now online, like Bill, I have gotten some snide comments about how I charged too much and how they could do it for pennies on the dollars.

My reply was and still is the above line ;-) Then you politely ask them if they have the sewing machine and skills. Heh! Or in my previous business it was growing herbs and making candles and soaps and asking them if they had ever rendered tallow or made soap with lye.

Heehee. Shut them right up!

One of my favorite instances of this comeback is a story about Avant-Garde composer John Cage. He did lots of crazy stuff early in his career… ideas as art… "happenings" as art. He wrote the famous composition 4'33" in which a pianist (usually) just sits at a piano and does nothing (for the most part)… doesn't play a single note… for 4 minutes and 33 seconds. He's also written concertos for car horn. And he did this recital where he had four overhead projectors set up… each with a clear plastic tray holding transparent staff paper (music notation paper) and half an inch of water. Then he put a bug in each tray of water and each of the four musicians would have to play what their bug "notated" as they swam around. LOL. Funny.

Anyway… the story goes that an elderly lady came up to him once after a performance and was very upset… and she said "I could have done that"… and he replied "Yes mam… but you didn't".

Often people confuse "hobby" and business.
You can make a 'tarptent" for less than $50 if you are prepared to work for 20-50 hours for nothing. ( of course if you need to buy a sawing machine and learn how to use it…)
See the post from Roger Caffin where he stated that he gave up selling tents ( at $500 AU or thereabout) because he did not want to work for $4 an hour.
Having worked in retail for over 30 years, I was always amazed to find so many co-workers that confused net and gross profit. Yet they never wanted to work for nothing, nor offered to pay for wages/rent/advertising/training/electricity/insurance/wastage/pilfering/stationary/kitchen supplies/rates/uniforms…. but always happy to ask for a pay rise.
Franco

Bill

That's amazingly gratuitous – why would anyone send a message like that?

And don't worry, I see enough "do it yourself" instructions on the website for things like bike lights that actually work out only marginally cheaper than buying from a proper manufacturer to not be under any illusions about the value of a $20 stove.

Arapiles

> See the post from Roger Caffin where he stated that he gave up selling tents ( at $500 AU or thereabout) because he did not want to work for $4 an hour.

I am sure it worked out at $3 per hour …

Cheers :-)