First trip with new wife- what sleep system? also gear list for 6 days in Glacier

[shawn weld]

I want to carry my wife's gear so she will find the backcountry more enjoyable. Problem is I'm having a hard time finding room in my pack for her blow dryer, curling iron, make up kit, 10 outfits and 6 pairs of shoes.

[Roger B]

McHale would make you a big enough pack that would carry such a load and could include all sorts of special pockets to sort the items. He may even add a mirror.

[Jonathan Ryan]

I agree Sarah. My fiance and I started UL backpacking to make our crazy goals more realistic. Normally for a 3 season advenutre her base weight will be around 5-6 lbs which allows her to carry all of the stuff she needs (she has become awesome at taking just the essentials) while still giving her the knowledge that I am not muling her stuff while she is on a nice nature walk.

Tip for the guys if your woman is willing to go backpacking with you when it is that time of the month, as a gesture of chivalry rather than nessecity (according to her)I always make sure our route travels by a hut with a restroom at some point in the trip…

[John G]

Posted by Sarah: "Women are NOT fragile creatures – saying that all the group gear needs to be carried by the man is…well, sexist. Many women appreciate being treated fairly and yes, expect to help out by carrying their fair share."

My reasoning behind recommending the husband carry the group gear was based on the following:

1. Group gear should NEVER be split up evenly between the people in a group. It should be allocated in proportion to their body weights so the group's speed and happiness factor is maximized. Carrying 10-15 extra pounds is a much bigger problem for a 135 pound man than a 200 pound man.

2. She's new, and he's experienced – so his conditioning will allow him to carry a greater percentage of his body weight without unusual discomfort. Even if a 1st time backpacker is in super shape – backpacking uses slightly different muscles than going to the gym, training for triathalons, etc, so they are going to get tired and sore faster.

3. New backpackers need to bring extra gear, because they don't know how cold they get, haven't learned to manage their persperation and keep their clothing dry, and need more creature comforts (like thick pads, etc). This extra gear already burdens them with extra weight.

My advise wasn't about her being female, it was about her being a first time backpacker and presumably significantly lighter than her team mate.

[G Z]

Well I think we've settled on sleeping bags- a pair of high end Western Mountaineering down bags (made in the USA). I think a pair of the 20 deg bags will work perfectly.
Alpin-lite for me since I need the shoulder room, and probably the ultra-light for her as she's only 5' 3" and 110lbs. Then they can zip together. If she gets tired of cuddling, we can zip them apart.

I have my prolite 4 full length and also a winter extra-thick ridgerest foam pad. She can try both on the first short overnighter to see what she wants to buy.

I'll cook both a mountain house freeze dried dinner (I LOVE the lasagna), and the lipton bag 'o noodles to see if she likes them. We also ordered a book on zip-loc bag camping recipies for other ideas.

[Sarah Kirkconnell]

Good choices on the bags :-) And 20* is good middle of the road temp rating. If she gets hot, she can always open up the bag as a quilt.

If she does like the Prolite, maybe have her look at the ladies Prolite 3 pad? It would be her height. While not everyone loves it, I have found it to be decent for comfort/warmth and carrying weight. She just has to put up with hot pink…lol!

[P. P.]

Gregory,
I hope that book you bought was Sarah's (see above) book, Freezer Bag Cooking. It's great!
Another good book by another BPL forum contributor is, A Fork In The Trail, by Laurie March.
I agree about the good choice of bags.
Bottom line as far as I'm concerned, just relax and have a great time together.

[Brian James]

Many ladies really like to feel that they have the *ability* to get clean. This is a big generalization, and I don't know your wife, but the importance of this feeling is something that we men sometimes overlook.

Getting clean is easy; you just have to remember to do it: make her a basin of hot soapy water once in awhile for washing up. Make her some warm clean water for washing her face; this feels great after a day on the trail.

If you want to go to town, on day 4 you can help her wash her hair by standing over her with a platy full of warm rinse water. Also, doing a load of laundry never hurts.

All of this can be accomplished with a couple of ounces of fuel and the cut-off bottom of a gallon milk jug as a sink/basin. Weight is minimal, and increase in satisfaction for some girls (read: my girlfriend) is huge.

Brian

PS you don't have to obsess about this or do it 2x a day; many ladies will feel like they're getting the "princess" treatment if you make a big deal of it. Just make some hot wash water once and then let her know that you can do it again any time.

PPS washing *yourself* up from time to time actually feels better than you'd think! :)

[Brian James]

PPPS Sarah posted: "saying that all the group gear needs to be carried by the man is…well, sexist."

Yes it is. And pragmatic as well.

The goal of many or most of the male posters here is simple: to get her to come again.

Female companions who are "into" the outdoors when you meet them are a rare bunch. As a man, you end up having to "MYOEnthusiast" or "MYOHiker" in many cases.

And everything that makes a *first* trip less fun is something that decreases the likelihood that she'll come for a second trip.

Once she's come a few times, (or for a few seasons,) she'll hopefully be as hooked as you are and you can start planning+packing together.

But at the start, and for some ladies all the time, the man needs to put his physical abilities to good use and take on most of the load and most of the punishment. In some cases that's the only way for both parties to have fun and for both parties to want to go again.

To put it another way: A lot of guys would say "It doesn't have to be fun to be fun." i.e. Sometimes it's going to suck, but you'll look back on it with fondness. If you feel that way and your wife *doesn't*, then it's very practical to sacrifice yourself to make sure she has an easier+more-fun time. Not because she's not *capable*, but because she might not want to go again if she has any kind of trauma or pain on her first outing.

Maybe I should say that "the bulk of the weight should be carried by the hiking nut so that the non-hiking-nut may more easily be enticed to come again sometime."

EDIT FOR CLARITY: Not in 1000 years would I mean any of these things may be true *because* your girlfriend/wife is female. Some of the toughest people I have ever met are female. I mean that they may be true because she is human, and a great many humans dislike long periods of pain/suffering/dirtiness. If you can reduce pain/suffering/dirtiness for any human, you increase the chance that that human will come again. Regardless of that human's gender.

[Sarah Kirkconnell]

Maybe first you should call them "women" or "ladies" instead of girls. A girl is a child under 12.

[Denis Hazlewood]

IMHO: For a mummy bag you can't beat a North Face Beeline, 900 fill down, with a rating of 30°, at 20 ounces. If you think a 15° bag is required I like the North Face Hightail, 900 fill down, at 34 ounces. My Beeline is the old model without a zipper. It's been my favorite for 4 years now.

[Colin Kelley]

> Well I think we've settled on sleeping bags- a pair of high end Western Mountaineering down bags (made in the USA). I think a pair of the 20 deg bags will work perfectly.
Alpin-lite for me since I need the shoulder room, and probably the ultra-light for her as she's only 5' 3" and 110lbs. Then they can zip together. If she gets tired of cuddling, we can zip them apart.

That's precisely the pair of bags my wife and I have converged on. They are both fantastic bags. We went snow camping at Mammoth last week we started with them zipped together. But when the temp is below freezing we found there is too much of a draft around the shared shoulder–no way to cinch the hood or collar–so we unzipped them and stayed warm.

I'll also cast a vote for down booties. We love the separate shell design that Feathered Friends has.

[Brian James]

"Maybe first you should call them "women" or "ladies" instead of girls. A girl is a child under 12." – Sarah

Changed. No diminuation or pejorative intended.

[Sven Klingemann]

Hey,
I thought that WM mummy bags could not be zipped together??? I was told that only one rectangular bag could be zipped to a mummy bag … ??? Argh!!!?
Sven

[Andrew Richardson]

"Maybe first you should call them "women" or "ladies" instead of girls. A girl is a child under 12."

There is no standard definition of the term "girl." It is not universal and it is wrong to say "A girl is a child under 12." Someone from another culture may find what you said equally as deprecating as what Brian was saying.

To have scientific clarity just say "those humans that are homogametic" or "When hiking with someone who has two X chromosomes." This should clear up any issues involving semantics. I suppose "female" also works..

Of course, it's all about the context and not the words.

Remember, they used to say that "Women should not be able to vote."

Brian wasn't saying anything offensive. Personally, now I think his post reads strangely and it seems like he is trying too hard not to offend people with two X chromosomes. I don't think you should change the word 'girl' in your post to 'women' or 'ladies.' Perhaps you can change it to 'people' but seriously, people with two x chromosomes i.e. girls/women/ladies/people that were born with a vagina and people that are heterogametic i.e boys/men/guys/people that were born with a peenis (The profanity filter got mad at me for spelling "peenis" correctly. You can't say an anatomically correct word here? How come I can say Vagina?) often times like to be clean.

Who says "ladies" anyways? I don't care. I hike with girls. When I talk about hiking, I talk about hiking with girls. Lots of girls that I hike with don't like starting fires. The girls I hike with also like to stay clean. The girls I hike with like to have less to carry. I wish that the girls I hiked with were aware that they are just as capable to start a fire as I am. I wish that society didn't teach the girls to feel that they are meant to be taken care of. I think this should be changed. I am all for equality. That is why when I hike with girls I don't think of them as girls, I think of them as someone I'm hiking with. That doesn't mean I don't describe them as girls in conversation.

Sarah and any other person who may be offended – I do not mean this to be an attack on what you said Sarah. You are not wrong. It wouldn't be right for Brian to speak about something a girl can't do, or shouldn't do etc… unless they really can't i.e. produce semen. I honestly respect your feelings and agree that the term 'girl' can often be used in a degrading manner. Subtle things like this (but clearly in my eyes, not this case) are a serious problem. Our male driven society has, through constant degrading, first not subtle, now more subtle, made women think that they are not capable of as much as a man is. My girlfriend actually hesitated to go into the science field because she was a "girl." I was outraged!! I've read many studies on this issue and sadly, many women choose not to be mathematicians, scientists, etc.. simply because they are a "girl." Now she gets A's and realizes that being a "girl" means nothing! I could go on and on, I just don't want to offend you. I do not in any way want you to think that I am insensitive to what this society became. I do hope that steps in the right direction are being taken and that this society can get over this hump. With TV and rap videos protraying women as they do though…ughhhhhh

[Sven Klingemann]

Aeeehm … boys and girls … I had this question about the WM bags … (sorry to interrupt with my boring question here)

[Elizabeth Freitas]

This thread has been very helpful to me, as I'm planning our first backpacking trip for Glacier with a comfort-driven husband. I also want this trip to charm him, so he will want to do this again! (And just so you know, I will be carrying the heavier pack on this trip!)

The sleeping pad is my big dilemma right now. My hubby prefers a double-high camping air mattress, but we have had bad experiences with all inflatable mattresses leaking air. He is 6'4" and about 250 lbs, so he makes the mattress work for its portage. You guys recommended Big Agnes or POE. How well does the POE Ether Thermo or Big Agnes Insulated Air Core hold air? What's the heaviest person you've tested them with? How susceptible to holes and leaks are they? I'm attracted to the comfort of these mattresses, but if they are going to leak, it would be better to port the weight of a Therm-a-rest Trail Pro.

I'm also worried about mosquitoes because my hubby is like honey to them (he is sweet!). What can I expect in Glacier in the latter part of June? Bug spray is already on the list, but I'm looking for a tent/shelter that is light and bug screened. I love the Cloudburst, but no screen. The Beta Bug and Beta Light are screened, but look like they don't have much room, and, frankly, the design doesn't appeal to me. Don't want to spend the night swatting at dive-bombing mosquitoes.

[Misfit Mystic]

Hi Elizabeth, check out tarptent.com. All of Henry Shires' tents are floored and fully enclosed with mesh. He also has great cutaway diagrams that give a better idea of a tent's space than anything else I've seen. Ron at sixmoondesigns.com has some noteworthy shelters as well; if you like space, his Lunar Duo is huge!

For pads, check out Kookabay. It's a small cottage firm run by a member of these forums named Bender Newbie. He'll make you an inflatable pad to whatever specs you desire: wider, longer, thicker, insulated etc. Search the forums for threads on his pads, lots of satisfied customers!

Bugs will be a nightmare in Glacier in June. Seriously, take lots of DEET, treat your clothes in permethryn, and take headnets.

[Trevor Wilson]

My wife and I use a Tarptent Squall 2 and absolutely love it. We took it to Glacier last summer and it was great. I don't think you could go wrong with any of their products.

"Bugs will be a nightmare in Glacier in June. Seriously, take lots of DEET, treat your clothes in permethryn, and take headnets."

+1

Also, be sure to check the snow levels for the areas you are going to. In June there will likely be significant snow in many places in the park so make sure to be prepared and check the NPS website often for snow levels. The Going to The Sun Road often does not open until late June or into July so be aware of that for your travel logistics as well.

Glacier is awesome though! It should be a great trip!

Snow in August at Boulder Pass

First night's camp at Upper Kintla Lake

Tarptent Squall 2

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Well, I hope your new wife likes backpacking more than "my current wife" (of 42 years). I could never get her to go backpacking even if I carried all her gear.

My next wife is gonna be WEALTHY so I can buy even more gear and backpack all over the world – with her, of course. :)

Eric

[George Matthews]

Agree about recommendation for Henry Shires Tarptents for adding a significant other to your hike. My scheduled delivery of 2010 Double Rainbow is next Thursday. Will try it next weekend.

When your spouse does not hike as much as you, then IMO it is wise to go high quality, great reputation company.

The 2010 DR is about 2 1/2 lb.

Check all the tarps out at http://tarptent.com

[Jay Wilkerson]

I just ordered a Rainshadow 2 for the wife,son and me too..We have a few hikes planned this summer and I can't wait for it to arrive…Rainshadow 2 has alot of room three and your gear and it comes in at 40oz. That's a great tarptent for sure.

[Elizabeth Freitas]

Thanks, guys. After a bit more spec checking, I am comforted to know that the Cloudburst and Squall 2 have netting, and will definitely look into permethryn and headnets. If the mosquitoes get my husband, he will never go out again!

Since we're new at this, I'm not ready to have a sleeping pad custom made, especially since I don't know if we'll ever use it again. The sizes/insulation of the POE Ether Thermo and Big Agnes Insulated Air Core seemed fine, but their comfort level all depends on staying inflated (something I have yet to see in an inflatable pad). Does anyone have field tests under the duress of 250 lbs? Don't want to ask a salesman – they're too optimistic!

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