Mountain Hardwear Phantom 32 vs. Western Mountaineering Summerlite

I have the WM Summerlite and have been very happy with it. I have used it to around the freezing mark with no problems and I am a cold sleeper. It also weighs absolutely nothing. I am a big fan of WM bags and also own a Ultralite.

I don't have a Phantom 32, but I do have a Phantom 0 which I also like. I have used it to 4* with no problems.

The Phantom shell material isn't as light (though probably more durable) or breathable as the shell fabric used on the WM bags. The Phantom series also has 3/4 length zippers instead of the full length zipper found on most WM bags. In a summer bag like the Summerlite, that is a big deal to me. The stiffening tape on the WM bags works slightly better than the tape on the MH bags, but the Phantom series probably has the better hood design.

I think WM bags are the best bags you can buy (at least here in the USA) but I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Phantom series bag. When I was buying bags there wasn't much price difference between the two and I would rather buy the American made bag in that situation, but I think WM has had two price increases since then and you can find Phantom bags on closeout right now (they changed colors for 2008) so if you can find one at a great price, I don't think you would be disappointed with it.

If price isn't an issue, always go for the WM bag. Always….

Hamds down…Western Mountaineering

As was said, the shell fabric on the MH is different than the WM. It is stiffer, has a less silky feel, but is also very tough for its weight. I have used the Phantom jacket as a cool weather belay piece and it has taken more abrasion abuse than other lightweight fabrics I've used.

Western makes fine bags, but I honestly think that the best bags by MH, Marmot, FF, and others are comparable- much depends on fit. Western hoods are too shallow for my long neck and the footbox is too small for my big feet. Marmot fits me much better… so don't just go by reputation, try to crawl in the bags and test fit.

Hi David…

As great a bag as it is, don't buy the Summerlite before you try it for width (the Ultralite is the same size). I had planned on buying the Summerlite for my Colorado thru this year, but after trying an Ultralite for size found that it was just too restrictive for me… it felt like a straight jacket. I ended up buying another Montbell Downhugger Super Stretch. I love WM bags, but won't buy any before trying the size out.

My hiking partner on a few trips used the phantom 32. I found the loft of the Phantom 32 to be a bit lacking compared to my Mountainsmith Wisp with the same temp rating and weight. Both bags were basically new at the time. WM bags seem to have a reputation for temp ratings on the conservative side and are definitely better made. Go for the Summerlite if it will not be too confining.

I have a Mountain Hardwear Phantom 32, and pretty generally liked it when I've used it.

I've pushed down to right around the 32 degree rating, and been comfortable.

I doubt that WM uses a lighter fabric – MH uses .85, which I believe is as light as you can get for down proof fabric. I've found that the .85 does leek feathers occasionally, and I wouldn't say it has very good DWR.

Now that I use a Jacks'R'Better No Sniveler quilt, I feel like the MH doesn't loft up as fast, or hold its loft as well under adverse conditions.

In the end, I agree with the general sentiment here: if you have the money, always go with Western Mountaineering.

Hi guys,
I read a lot of reviews and found myself in kind of loop for searching right 3 season sleeping bag.
I have only one demand: full length zip that could be opened fully and if needed connected with other sleeping bag.
What do you say about other options that can be found over there:
1. GoLite Venture 40
2. Marmot Atom
3. MontBell ULSS Hunger 4
4. MontBell ULSS Hunger 5
5. Quilts Back Country Blanket
6. WM Summerlite
7. Non Down 17 oz Deuter Dreamlite

The real problem that I can't try them out, since in my country I can't find anyone of them.
I want to buy one during my business trip to USA, which will be during next month for 9 days only.

Could you please provide your thoughts on these sleeping bag?

Thank you in advance.

greetings

as john said the hugger line from mont bell is really hard to beat and the hugger idea really does work "no cold spots" light as a feather :)

Slavenya…

If you are slim enough the WM Summerlite is great, if not you might really like the Montbell ULSS Downhugger in either a #4 (35F 1.7C) or a #3 (30F -1C). The #5 is pushing into the summer season (40F 4.5C). I've owned and used the WM bags and like them, great quality and very warm. Once you try the Montbell Super Stretch bags it will seem that other bags just don't fit, especially if you move around a lot. I now have three of them: #0, #4, #7.

Personally I really prefer WM, since they use Pertex and made in USA which I found be more durable production. MontBell uses their fabric and china production.
However, even though I think I'm slim enough, I can't risk with buying sleeping bag that will not suit me.
What do you say about Deuter Dreamlite?
http://www.altrec.com/shop/detail/34101/?sch=clk
Cost near to nothing, when comparing with WM of MontBell.

Personally I really prefer WM, since they use Pertex and made in USA which I found be more durable production. MontBell uses their fabric and china production.

WM makes great products, but saying that MontBell has less durable production means you haven't used MontBell products. Most of what is made by Japanese companies is of impeccable quality, and MontBell is no exception. Their quality assurance standards are extremely high (higher than almost any American company I've bought products from) and in the 31 years that I've used MontBell products I have never had anything fail or come apart. And I've used A LOT of their products… probably more than anyone here at BPL, even more than MB Master Brett!

I have three of their sleeping bags, the DH #4, DH #3, and the Super Burrow Bag UL, which I use as a thin, insulated overbag or a very light summer bag. All of them work wonderfully and the stretch quilting of the Downhuggers, really makes a great difference. The Downhugger #3 is the only bag I've been using for the last two years in alpine walks in Japan and Europe.

I don't think that you should count MontBell out because of worries about quality. Though I would say that WM has a much higher "hand-made" factor, with top quality materials.
___________________

Correction: I did have one problem with a MontBell product once, when my UL Inflatable Mattress 90 developed some leaks and delamination. I went to the MontBell headstore in Tokyo and they replaced the mattress. I used the mattress for one month in the Alps last summer and never had any problems since.

I still use an MB rain poncho that I bought in 1977. Not as supple as it once was, it still works great for its purpose, though.

>I had planned on buying the Summerlite for my Colorado
>thru this year, but after trying an Ultralite for size
>found that it was just too restrictive for me… it felt
>like a straight jacket.

Lots of people out there would call a thru hike downright crazy, so maybe there's something to be said for the straight jacket feel of the Summerlite, haha.

For my own opinion, the Summerlite is great down to about 30-35 degrees depending on humidity and what I eat, but the lack of a draft collar makes it too impractical for use below that. Cold air seeps in through the face hole. The Summerlite (reg length) actually weighs 20 ounces, not 19, so keep that in mind when making a decision (of course the MH bag could be 1 ounce over spec as well). If you think you will be pushing the temp rating of the bag, I'd say that the Ultralight Super, at 27 ounces, is a much better sleeping bag. Otherwise, the Summerlite is fine for what it is, and because WM bags have reverse-differential hoods, the Summerlite will be easier to use as a quilt than the MH bag. Mountain Hardwear makes good sleeping bags, though. Just keep in mind that the zipper on the Phantom is not full length like on the Summerlite.

I went to my local gear shop today and tried out the two bags. To my mind, the Summmerlite was clearly the superior bag, but its sizing definitely runs narrow as John pointed out. Personally, I didn't have a problem with this and I thought the bag was a good match for my preferences and build. I can see why some might find the fit of the Summerlite to be a little claustrophobic though. In my estimation, there was definitely sill room to wear a Montbell Thermawrap or my Micro Puff vest in order to push the temperature rating. I really liked the bag and thought it would serve me well for most three season applications.

The Phantom was just sort of underwhelming. It has a roomier fit, but I was amazed at how much faster the Summerlite lofted up after being removed from its storage sack. It also had visibly more loft than the Phantom.

Also, my brother was in town today, and he brought his newly purchased Marmot Atom. This is a great bag too. It has a roomier fit than the Summerlite and, if it were rated to the same temperature, I'd be considering it more seriously. The hood on this bag fits me better than any of the others.

It was a great help to try all three bags. So far I think it's likely I'll go with the summerlite as it's only slightly more money than the Phantom, but I do want to try a Montbell bag on for size before making a final decision. The Mntbell bag is sized to fit people up to 6'4" (my height) and there are two extra inches of length in the Summerlite, so I'm a little curious to see how the Montbell bag will fit me. Unfortunately, there are no Montbell dealers in NYC if you can believe that. I guess I'll have to order one online from some retailer with a good return policy.

Last year I purchased a Phantom 32, took it home & felt it did not have the necessary loft to keep me warm to 32 F. Backpacker and other testers had the experience that bore out my suspicion.

For about $100. more I bought a WM Megalite with MUCH more loft and only a few oz. more weight. I love it and have slept comfortably in it in a 22F breezy night! Best of all, unlike the half zipper on the Phantom 32 the WM Megalite has a full zip & I can open it all the way up, hook its foot over my full length UL Thermarest and have a great quilt on warmer nights.

So, yeah, I vote WM summer bags over the Mt'n. Hard Wear Phantom 32, enthusiastically.

Eric

Greyson said:

> I doubt that WM uses a lighter fabric – MH uses .85, which I believe is as light as you can get for down proof fabric. I’ve found that the .85 does leek feathers occasionally, and I wouldn’t say it has very good DWR.

The .85 spec is before DWR treatment. The Phantom fabric is acrylic coated which I believe pushes the final weight higher than the Pertex Quantum (aka Extremelite)/Super Micro Fiber with DWR that WM uses. Certainly the acrylic coating on the Phantom makes for terrible breathability.

Here’s a thread comparing to the Marmot Helium which is basically identical to a WM bag but with half the zipper length:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/2483/index.html

I noticed this year's model of the Phantom 32 has that shiny coating to it. I assume this is acrylic? My 2007 Phantom 32 doesn't have the shiny coating. (Same with my Phantom jacket). Does this mean the older model is sans acrylic? Would the older model have improved breathablity but poorer water resistance?

Acrylic coating is shiny compared to a PU coating.

A production reason for having an acrylic coating on a very light synthetic fabric is to stop the fabric from distorting and fraying badly. The coating 'sort-of' binds the threads together.

Is the acrylic coating as good as PU? Absolutely not. It wears out quickly and leaks badly. At the same time it does not breathe and gets condensation.

Why use an acrylic coating? Simple answer: is is cheaper than PU. Nothing more! Frankly, these days I would not touch anything made with an acrylic-coated fabric. It usually means whoever made the item was more interested on profit margin than performance.

Cheers

When I get in these positions to save money, in the end I am always wishing for the lighter bag that ALSO packs smaller. I thus wish for the WM.

I have 4 of their bags and my favorite is the Caribou because of:
1. Full length zipper is nice in warmer weather. My homemade sweetie pie also zips in easily (when with wife).
2. Box stitched— which is my sooooo favorite style. I like having no down shifting to worry about.

My other 3 WM bags are dependant on which family member(s) are/is with me and what kind of trip we’re/I’m on:
1. Megalite
2. Antelop DL
3. POD30

Did you end up going with WM?

-Barry

Here's what Mountain Hardwear's representative e-mailed me regarding the new Phantom series bags: "The outside shell fabric on the Phantom series of sleeping bags has changed this year. The new fabric has a better "hand" (feel) and is more breathable than the fabric that was used in the past. The new fabric also has a "shiny" look to it. That is the only update or change to the Phantom series of sleeping bags."

More breathable? Is this misinformation here?

as long as this is a 4 month old bumped thread, and montbell was mentioned prominently I might as well ask hear instead of wasting a whole topic on it:

Can the montbell bags be mated to each other?

Yes. Current MB models can be mated.

> The new fabric also has a "shiny" look to it. That is the only update or change to the Phantom series of sleeping bags."
In which case I suspect that the fabric is NOT acrylic-coated. Instead it has been hot-pressed to get the shiny look – and to help keep the down inside.

Really, I would not expect MH to use an acrylic-coated fabric. Sort of incompatible with their reputation.

(Thanks David – error corrected.)

"WM"? You mean MH, right?

Roger that PM, Roger.

David