Montbell UL Down Inners in Layered Sleep System

gonna guess down to 32 F…that is a guess cuz I don't own that stuff…waiting to see what others think

Hrmm… what would be the most efficient way to alter the system to achieve greater 3-season versatility/lower temp comfort?

Check this thread out.

I estimate they can add up to 10 degrees F, but only if you have something decent to wear on your head, which is something I don't see in your list. Lacking good head insulation, you may be better wearing the pants as a hat and scarf when it turns cold!

Dear Jed-

Please let me know the results of your investigation.

Sincerely,

Johannes

I use the Montbell UL Down inners exactly like you’re describing, along with Exped down booties (just like Feathered Friends’) and a wool cap or lightweight down hood. I find these add ~12 degrees to my comfort level. They’re also fantastic for camp. The UL layer means I don’t catch drafts while I’m in my bag due to the billows affect. Even in the middle of the night I can hop out outside to adjust the tent or pee without freezing and without having to change clothes. While we’re outside making meals etc I wear the down inner pants with a waterproof/windproof shell over (Golite Reed or Marmot Precip). If we’re in the snow then I take a heavier down parka too which becomes my pillow at night.

Highly recommended.

[I’ll be using this setup in a week up at Mammoth. We’ll be building an igloo and staying in it overnight–assuming all goes well. :-) ]

Colin-

Jackpot!

Thank you for your post. Its nice to hear from someone who does exactly what I'm thinking of doing! Do you have the Jacket or the Parka? If the parka, to what temp does the hood keep you toasty? I imagine I could wrap my head with my houdini for a little wind protection if the fit is too tight.

The reason I like the idea of pairing the Inners with a quilt is precisely what you said: integrated in-and-out of the bag comfort. I also imagine temperature regulation will be easier with this system, allowing for greater versatility and simplicity, and that condensation in the down would be a non-issue/greatly minimized by the warm air space created by the synthetic quilt.

What do people think is the sleep/clothing system with the greatest versatility and simplicity for on the trail, in camp, and in bed, for the weight?

P.S. If this question has been covered in previous threads, I apologize. I am not sure what key words to search for that!

I used a MB thermawrap jacket and pants to add 20 degrees to my MB #7 (a 50'F 17 oz down bag). I slept comfortably cool.
Just as a previous poster mentioned, another advangage is being able to use part of your sleep system around camp. If I had added a cap or a bottle of hot water maybe I could have pushed it a couple more degrees.
The original question was the advantage of the UL down layer, not the thermawrap, but Ive heard the down is warmer than thermawrap, so my experience should be informative.

Hi Jed! I use a similar system, but like Brett I pair the MB inners with a MB down bag (SS Alpine Down Hugger #5). I have used this combination while camping on snow with temps down into the twenties. I don't know the R value of the Torsolite but I,m thinking that you might have more heat retention by using a closed cell pad like the GG nightlite, or maybe use both. I slept pretty comfortably using this set up but at times could feel the cold seeping up from the snow if my legs moved off the backpack under them. My feet stayed warm using merino socks.

I just got back from Lake Powell and brought my Ultra 20, MLD Bivy, MB Down Inner, a thick fleece balaclava, and some "toe cozies" I made out of fleece.

I never actually slept with my Down Inner on, lows were 31 to 35 F for the three nights. However, the second and third night I decided to try to go "hard core" and sleep only in my Down Inner and bivy. I did wrap my feet up real well with a fleece jacket and a coat, thinking that if this worked I would just make a "foot-bag". Proper head insulation AND zipping up the bivy ALL THE WAY were crucial to me attempting this. (I should also note that I had gloves on). I slept OK until 2:45 AM when the cold woke me up. I think my thermometer read 33 F when I got back in the Golite quilt. The next night I tried it again but got too cold around 1 AM.

So what was the point of this? That the Down Inner jacket is dang warm. I've also slept in temps down to freezing in a summer bag wearing the Down Inner jacket and was fine most of the night. If I would have had better head insulation the nights I did that I would have slept like a baby.

Ryan, thanks for posting a reply on your results. I'd be interested in seeing how the BPL quilt works out for you. The Ultra 20 is really lofty. I hope it'd keep you warm at 30*!

I'm hoping to get away with a similar system to your UL60 system, except I'll be using a summer quilt with a thick WM Flight jacket. Once my TiGoat bivy arrives later this week, I'll test it out in the 30s in the backyard.

Jed,

Glad the posting was of help!

> Do you have the Jacket or the Parka?

Just the jacket. I have a light snap-on down hood from an old jacket that I take if it will be below freezing. If I were buying again I might get the Parka.

> I imagine I could wrap my head with my houdini for a little wind protection if the fit is too tight.

I have done a similar thing for camp. Instead of taking a full rain shell, I take my 3-ounce Marmot Ion wind shirt with hood which is quite similar to the Houdini. That gives me great wind protection. It also adds a surprising amount of additional warmth when worn over the Montbell jacket. Not only does it keep wind from cutting through the down jacket at the sewn-through spots, I believe that all that trapped air around the sewn-through seams creates additional insulation. Of course that air's R-value is nowhere near as high as the air trapped in the down. But still, it helps.

This was a repost of a post I made above. I don't know how that happened.

Jed,
This will repeat some of the sage advice given above, but I'll throw my hat in the ring.

GoLite Cave 1 tarp 14oz
Gossamer Gear Polycro med tarp 1.5oz
Insulmat inflatable torso pad 8.6oz
Blue foam for legs 3oz
Montbell pillow 2.5oz
The North Face Beeline 900 down bag 1lb 3oz
BMW bivy 6.5oz
Montbell UL Down Inner pants and jacket ~1lb
Nunatak Down Balaclava 3oz
Montbell UL wind pants 2.6 oz
Montbell UL wind jacket 3 oz

I believe your clothing should get you through the alpine start AM chill before you warm up from hiking or climbing and your bag should be just warm enough to make up the difference between in-camp level of activity and the depressed metabolic level of 3AM deep sleep.

In other words, on the coldest night of a trip I should be just warm enough with all my clothes on inside my bag. Show me a camper with a pile of clothes next to his sleeping bag at night, and I'll show you a heavy backpack. Plus the afore mentioned benefit of being fully dressed whenever exiting the bag.

On dry, low 40 degree trips; themal pants and Montbell shell pants on the legs with light Rail Riders sunshirt, UL Down Inner Jacket with Montbell UL shell jacket on torso with down balaclava on head, neck and face.
For colder trips into the 30s I add UL Down Inner Pants.
Temps below that I just add a warmer bag like my 1lb 12oz Western Mountaineering Ultralight.

If it's a warmer trip, I ditch the down inner jacket, but I don't even open my refrigerator without my trusty down balaclava on. It goes everywhere. 3oz of down on the head, neck and face is the most efficient insulation on the planet. (Don't forget the face! It's loaded with heat radiating blood vessels on the surface. If your feet get cold, put on a balaclava.)

$110 for the Nunatak is pricey. Less effective but cheaper is to buy a thick down parka with a real fluffy detachable hood that covers the face. Take the hood on every backpacking trip and use the jacket for around town. After a few trips with your balaclava you'll find yourself leaving "indespensible" pants and jackets at home. I look like an idiot around camp with my "Michelin Man" head and little or no insulation on my legs and torso, but I am comfy and have the lightest pack.

I rarely have a use in the backcountry for a down jacket hevier the the t-shirt weight UL Inner jacket. In their feature articles and podcasts on Doing Denali UL, Matt and Agnes took the UL Inner pants to over 16k' seeing temps below 0!