Ultralight shelter for two adults and two kids

My kids are age 8 and 10, but started backpacking with my wife and I at age 4 and 6. We used two 2 man floored, single door, double wall tents and it worked out very well – except for the 3-4 pound weight penalty and really hard time fitting two tents into my pack along with the rest of my gear (and 1 extra sleeping bag + much of the kids clothing into my wife's pack). Now that I'm getting older – and the kids cloths are starting to take up more room, and food is also starting to take up more room since they eat more – I'm going to have to find a solution that takes up less pack space (and lighter would be nice too).

Thinking back on our trips, I can't remember any areas that we couldn't have found enough space to pitch a 4 man tent. Typically, we were hiking established trails (Shanendoah valley in VA, Maryland park trails, and the AT in Southern PA), coastal areas, grand canyon, etc. We do a fair amount of bushwacking (the kids also do Orienteering meets) and go climb any hills comprised of sets of boulders we see – but typically camp somewhere "allowed". Even when bushwacking though, we could have found a spot to pitch a 4 man tent within a 10 minute walk of any point. (We have deciduous forests here with medium amounts of brush & undergrowth).

Two tents is extra fun for the kids once they are about 8 years old since they can then pitch it themselves. However, floorless is BIG problem for kids (and my wife) the first time there are spiders – and for the next 10 times you use the shelter after that…

Two tent's are also nice for the parents (we each take 1 kid) since there are only half as many squirming, kicking bodies to wake you up at night. Kid's also tend to need bio breaks in the middle of the night – but 2 kids don't have the courtesy to coordinate their needs. ie: The kids take turns needing to waking you up so they can go water the bushes. By splitting up the kids, each parent only gets woken up half as much :)

I'm personally thinking of going to two tarp tents this year. It looks like the pack space and weight is about the same as 1 of my SD Lightnings. The single wall / condensation aspect makes me nervous – since I'm also thinking of switching the family to down bags this year…

Hey guys just finished a overnight bushwalk with the fam…If anyone is interested I might write up a trip report and post it on the trip report page.

I'll like to clarify the age of the kids first. My eldest is a girl age five and my youngest is a boy age 16mo.

Out of necessity we had to go the division route. My little girl and I shared my ID silshelter (600g with groundsheet 6Ti stakes. My wife and son shared a 10year old Macpac eclipse which is a 1.5man tent (around 2.4kg)
That in non metric is 6lb 10oz total for four people.

I've recently "won" on Ebay a Black Diamond Mega Light. I'm quite keen to give it a try once it arrives from the states. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
cheers

Henry,

Okay, now that you've got me thinking about a 4-person Tarptent, I'm wondering when you'll start spilling the beans on specs and availability! Are we talking front entry or side? Is it in the style of the Rainshadow or Rainbow, or a completely new design? What kind of weight are we looking at? Or is it all still top secret?

I'm sure you've come up with a great design, but I still think there's a market for a dual-strut family-size shelter utilizing 4 hiking poles. I would think serious weight could be saved if you made a tent that looked like a Rainshadow 2 at both the front and rear. I guess it would look like a SMD Lunar Duo but using Tarptent's strut design, allowing for 4 trekking poles for wind stability and removing the need for the long rear pole of the Rainshadow 2. That would open up serious interior space for 4! I will be very curious to see how you've implemented your design philosophy into a 4-person shelter.

Eagerly anticipating info… =)

>Are we talking front entry or side? Is it in the style of the Rainshadow or Rainbow, or a completely new design? What kind of weight are we looking at?

I can say that the floor space is 87" x 87" and it's all usable–nothing cut off by inwardly sloping walls. Side entry and will weigh about 3 lbs.

-H

Wow, just… wow. A 3 lb, 4 person tent. That's 12oz per person, about as light as you can get with a reasonably sized UL solo tarp/bivy combo.

Can't wait!

> Looking forward with real eagerness to the 3-4 person Tarptent!

Caution! While a 2-man tarp-tent is stable enough in some wind, a 4-man tarp-tent is going to have some very big spans with little or no support. It will certainly not be as stable in windy conditions. I would have some reservations.

Roger,

Yeah, I've thought of the high wind issue, too. Our TT Rainshadow 1 had quite a bit of fabric. If I were expecting high winds, or if I were with four adults, I would certainly bring two smaller tarps/tarptents or a Shangri-La 4, as any of these will be lighter than a 4-person fully-enclosed tent that can actually handle high winds.

But for a family of four who prefers a single shelter (see below for my reasons I prefer a single family shelter), the options are 1) really heavy, 2) you forego a fully enclosed shelter (a possible trip-stopper with kids), or 3) you carry something with cramped headroom (pyramid-style shelters) that make camping life less enjoyable for the kids.

I only take my kids backpacking when the forecast is for sunny skies and calm wind, and we do few miles at low elevations, so for me lightweight, fully enclosed, and good headroom are higher on my priority list than wind resistance. A four-person Tarptent would allow me to graduate away from car camping towards backpacking with my family. And this is where I think the real niche of this tent will be.

– – – – –

Re: two shelters vs one:

I've tried two separate shelters with our kids, and here are the problems as I see it:

1) There is no one single large enclosed area free of bugs to all hang out at, particularly when the kids get spooked.

2) There is considerably more setup hassle and pieces of gear to lose/forget.

3) Once you've gone to your separate tents, you lose the sense of a 'family' outing. Some kids will prefer to sleep together in a separate tent (and some parents will prefer it that way too!), but mine still like being with a parent, which leads me to the final concern:

4) Kids can really roll around at night. Putting them between the two parents in a single tent keeps them away from the shelter walls.

I think once both our kids are teenagers (and can carry all of their own gear), then we'll switch to two tents.

Any updates from Henry Shires on the 4 person 3 lb tarptent that was discussed in this thread?? I don't see anything on his website yet. Does anyone know of any other new products out there since this thread was posted?

I have a 10 mth old and with another on the way come the end of August… I would like to get out for a short family trip early summer before she gets to far along. I don't if this is realistic or not?? Any advice from anyone out there on how to make camping/backpacking most comfortable for my wife? She's not into this all that much anyway.

Alright, Henry, time to spill the beans =). Either the product will be announced soon, or it was indefinitely delayed. Or have you taken Steve Job's marketing strategy of no comment until product launch day?

Honestly, I just bought an REI Hobitat 4 on super-clearance for $84, but if I knew that a 4-person Tarptent was around the corner, I'd probably return the Hobitat and use the money for the Tarptent, so that we have only the one tent for car camping and backpacking. My return policy is what, 30 days (wink wink).

I'm with you John, both on the Hobitat, and the Tarptent.

Great, Henry, I've been waiting for that 4-person tent for a couple of years since you first mentioned the idea! I hope it won't be too much longer!

For those who think a Tarptent might be too fragile for kids, you'd be surprised how strong they are! My two (Squall 2 and Rainshadow 2) have survived the every-morning Labrador whole-body tail-wag (he can clear a coffee table with one sweep of his tail), numerous instances of both kids and dog running through the guylines at top speed and a "pillow" fight with daypacks. I do try to keep the rough-housing at a minimum, but those of you with kids know what happens the minute you turn your back! I also had no problems with a SMD Lunar Solo(e) even though I tripped over the front guyline (which is black) innumerable times in the dark. It also stood up to the Labrador tail-wag just fine. Silnylon isn't as delicate as it looks.

Condensation? At the Olympic NP beach last summer, in fog and drizzle, there was no visible condensation inside the Rainshadow 2 with my son and his two kids inside. On the other hand, my Lunar Solo(e) pitched right next door was dripping wet inside, with just me (no dog allowed on that trip). Frankly, Henry's tents are better ventilated.

We now have a new standard for shelter durablity – Labrador tail-wag, which shall be called a LTWF (f for Factor) on a scale of one to ten, and obviously Mary's Tarptents score a 9 – 10!

> Alright, Henry, time to spill the beans =). Either the product will be announced soon, or it was indefinitely delayed.

Delayed but not indefinitely. Was hoping to have a firm announcement already but it will be another couple of weeks. Can't compete against $84 but it will be a whole lot lighter. 16 lbs for the Hobitat? Does it come with a Burro?

-H

The Hobitat is 16 pounds, plus I got the vestibule and footprint. You just have to exercise a little more before the trip. It's probably not that bad, maybe I'll unroll it, and find a Weber grill or something. It is returnable, you know?

How about a photo hint?

.

To be clear, I would only use the Hobitat 4 for car camping. At $84 new (reg. $260 or so), it seemed like a cheap way to car camp in luxury. But even at the steep discount, buying two family tents this winter is a bit much, and I prefer keeping all our outdoor gear simplified, which usually means using backpacking gear when car camping.

That said, a burro is actually a great idea now that you mention it! It could carry the Hobitat AND my tired children! There'd be enough room for the burro inside the tent, too. =) Too bad mine didn't come with a Weber grill…

I second the teaser photo request. Surely you at least have a computer drawing of it you can post. =) I've pondered how anyone could come up with an 87" x 87" tent without sloping sides for only 8oz more than a Double Rainbow. Perhaps instead of posting a photo, you could drum up excitement by starting a contest for the person who best guesses the shape and features of the new Tarptent. The winner gets a discount on the tent!

I'll go first: None of the Squall/Rainshadow designs would create vertical walls. The only vertical walls Henry creates is with the Rainbow, so it's likely based on this design. I can't imagine only 1 pole, so there must be a second, 6 oz pole in there somewhere. But that's most of the 8-10oz weight increase between the Double Rainbow and this new tent. I can't imagine a run-of-the-mill X-shaped pole setup, as there'd be no awning Henry is famous for. The only way I can figure it working is if you took two Rainbows, placed them side by side, and connected them with fabric. The weight of this fabric connection is offset by the reduction in weight from removing the walls between them. You'd have to use a single, longer cross strut to keep the center from sagging. That's the best I can come up with. Did I win, Henry? =) Okay, okay, wishful thinking.

Maybe he can name it the Burro. Although burros are kind of out of style, aren't they. Llamas are the thing………

LOL I like that. The Tarptent Burro. Kind of like burrito but smelly. Guess it's better than the Tarptent Quad Rainbow which, near as I can tell doesn't exist in nature. I guess I should be more careful; I don't want to insult Henry if I get it right!

I see the TarpTent site now shows, under "Whats New" the two person Scarp 2 and four person Hogback. This may have been brought to BPL members attention already but was new to me.