Korkers Torrent

A group of us are planning a multi-week backpacking / packrafting / fly fishing trip to the Bob Marshall Wilderness this year and I am going through the same "never ending search".

A size 9 Torrent with the hiking sole weighs ~2.1 lbs. The extra felt soles weigh ~.5 lbs (only weighed the size 12 felt sole). Their cross current shoes weighs less at ~2.0 lbs plus the extra felt sole. One person in my group has been testing their Guide Wading Boot at 2.4 lbs with the hiking sole for about one month. He highly recommends this boot for your intended application.

If you have normal to narrow feet, the lightest option with excellent wading traction is the La Sportiva Exum River at ~1.9 lbs. The FriXion XF Dot Rubber sole on this shoe works well for both environments.

I have been on the market for something similar for backcountry fishing trips this summer. You might check out the Salomon Technoamphibian water shoe. It's lighter than the La Sportiva at 9 oz. and change and a lot cheaper. Onlineshoes.com sells them for $45. The Exum River costs $110. A fly angler posted a positive review on the lonline shoes site.

Nancy

I searched the canyoneering sites to determine what shoes were reported to provide the best traction when using a river as a pseudo trail. Only two shoes were consistently mentioned as providing adequate traction for safe travel. The Five Ten Canyoneer II was first with the La Sportiva Exum River a close second. Both of these shoe’s soles are manufactured from proprietary soft rubber formulated for cold water rock traction. There were many comments about conventional " so called water shoes", such as the Solomon Techno Amphibians, providing lack of acceptable traction on wet rocks in cold water. The standard for dedicated fly fishing shoes is felt soles. The consensus in the fly fishing forums I searched was that the Stealth Rubber licensed from Five Ten and used on some wading shoes provided about 80% of the traction provided by conventional felt soles.

I would like to establish a BPL testing protocol that forum members would use test cold water rock sole traction. This protocol should allow meaningful comparisons between different testers. One idea that came to mind was to fill up a plastic bag with on quart of water. Place the bag inside the shoe. Place the shoe in the refrigerator for one hour prior to testing to simulate the typical 55F degree water for trout. Place the shoe on a wet, smooth, and level polypropylene plastic surface. Pull the shoe across the plastic with a fish scale connected to the laces, or push with a postal type scale across the plastic sheet, to determine the traction provided. Larger size shoes would test with more friction than smaller shoes but we should still be able to determine a general sole type friction range for a given size shoe, given enough testers. We would each publish the test results for the shoes that we own to this forum for comparison.

I strongly suspect that are better test protocols than the first one I came up with and so I would like to hear others ideas before beginning testing the shoes I currently own. Hopefully we can approach consensus on a single test protocol.

In Japan sawanobori (creek climbing) walkers use either felt-soled fishing shoes, specialized rubberized sawanobori shoes, such as those made by MontBell, or “waraji”, straw sandals that you strap over neoprene or waterproof water socks, or directly over your regular lightweight hiking shoe. All of them are designed for walking on moss and algae covered rocks. Many of the walkers swear by the waraji.

Here is a link that explains a lot about sawanobori.

Richard-

I like the idea of a standardized test, but my initial impression is that the effectiveness of a wading shoe is an extremely subjective thing. For example, limestone spring creeks present unique wading challenges when compared to high country freestone rivers. Slimy limestone covered rocks are a much different wading experience than round, smooth, fist sized boulders. Do you think your proposed protocol would be able to compensate for that? I guess if we were able to come up with some sort of a "wet traction scale" perhaps that would suffice? The individual user would have to take it with a grain of salt in relation to his or her unique circumstance?? Just thinking our loud, I'm certainly not a scientist…

This is an extremely good idea. Perhaps a group of us who fish the backcountry a lot could combine this summers experiences with wading/hiking shoes and write a review for BPL? That might be a good way to handle the objective and subjective nature of this subject.

John,

Since you and I will write up our subjective experiences and post them to this thread, hopefully others will follow suit.

I back country fly fish, sea kayak, white water kayak, and packraft. As a result, I have a wide range of water sole types on hand to test. Unfortunately it will probably be a 2-3 weeks before I have time to start the objective friction test.

Richard-

I'll certainly do that. I'm going to pick up the La Sportiva shoes you referenced above. I'm headed into the Winds chasing Goldens, up the Bechler after cutts and hot springs, into the Cloud Peak again for Goldens and then into the Bighorns after rainbows. I'll have fifteen solid fishing days and ten or so hiking days by the end of September. I'll post my experiences when I'm finished.

I'm interested to learn more about your Bob trip. I've done some initial planning with regards to a trip there, but haven't considered pack rafts. Please let me know how things turn out.

I placed one quart of water, in a Zip-loc, and then inserted it into the avg size 11 shoe to test the sole friction on a highly polished sheet of HDPE. For the wet test I floated the shoe in a tub of cold water for 10 seconds prior to testing the traction. I put a string loop around the shoe and then pulled it across the HDPE plate with an electronic scale to measure the friction in lbs. One anomaly noted is that a felt sole tests poorly using this protocol, yet felt grips great on slimy river rocks. The Five Ten Canyoneer had the best wet traction by a significant margin. Hopefully others will use this protocol and post their results for us to compare.

Richard,

Strong work! I found it very interesting that the 5-10 shoe didn't preform well on a dry surface.

I'd like to see the results using the same methodology on both a piece of limestone and then a piece of polished river rock.

Where can one purchase a digital scale similar to the one you have? I've got a five or six different wading boots I could test.

Thanks!

John,

Thanks for the feed back. I thought with the packrafting interest on this site, there would be more volunteer testers for dual mode shoes than just you and me. I am thankful that I have at least one kindred spirit. It appears to me that Algae covered rock as a test surface, in addition to the limestone and polished river rock you mention, should cover the majority of river bed environments.

I am eagerly anticipating your test results. Please test both with the shoe sole dry and cold/wet for each surface you sample. Also please test pulling the shoe backwards as well as forward. I forgot to do this in my initial set of tests.

My scale is an old Berkley 20#, model R102001 Digital Fish Scale. It appears to have been replaced with a 15# version for $28. Considering you can use this investment to weigh fish as well as test water shoe sole traction, it is a bargain. The only other investments are a Zip-Loc and a piece of string. This is a real bargain compared to the cost of most ultralight gear.

Thanks guys for your efforts. This will prove helpful to me as well, especially since John and I are looking for the EXACT same shoe (because we're doin the same trip! ;) )

Do some folks wear a single pair of boots for long, multi-day hikes and fishing?

Do the boots dry quickly enough to avoid wet feet while hiking? What do you wear for socks? Any issues with blisters?

Right now, I carry trailrunners for hiking and wading shoes for wading. I'd love to simplify and consolidate, but I'm having a hard time with the idea of hiking long distances in wading shoes.

What are folks' experience here?

Kai,

I recently returned from 1.5 months of backpacking, packrafting, and fly fishing. I used one pair of shoes for everything and just varied my sock combination based on the environment. My shoes were Five Ten Savants (31 oz for size 11.5); they have the same sticky rubber soles and quick draining mesh as the heavier Five Ten Canyoneers but better foot cushioning for backpacking. In an earlier thread I posted my wet friction tests and the Five Ten Canyoneer’s sole(same as Savant’s sole) came out on top. After a run through the washing machine they still look near new.

Socks for backpacking and creek crossings were Silvermax liners (odor prevention) and Serius Gen II Storm socks (2.0mm). For extended river wading, I just added a pair of 2 mm Cabela's neoprene as the outside sock pair. For camp use I used a pair of Smart Wool socks with Cabela's Gore-Tex socks over them. For sleeping I just took off the Cabela's Gore-Tex sock and wore the Smart Wool socks to bed. My feet were always comfortable and my shoe weight was the lowest.

For two weeks of my 1.5 month trip I was with 4 other people who brought multiple pairs of shoes. Two of them brought Crocs for camp wear and dual-sole Krokers for fly fishing / backpacking. Like me, they used Silvermax liner socks and two pair of 2mm neoprene socks for river wading. They used Smart Wool socks with their crocs for camp wear. We were in and out of the rivers and scrambling rocky canyons so often they just ended up just leaving the felt soles on their Krokers all of the time. Their 8 oz hiking soles were only used on the initial backpack in. Their felt soles were shot after the two weeks of combined trail and river use.

Two of the others brought felt soled boots for river wading and trail runners for backpacking and camp use. I don’t recall what they brought for socks. One of the two didn’t account for his feet swelling and softening from the river wading and frequent rock scrambling. After a few days he put on his normally good fitting trail runners to climb up to a mountain peak for the views and came back very badly blistered.