WARNING on SPOT Sattelite

How long is the "long" waiting period (in the totally open space)?

Globalstar has been having some problems with their birds dying. As a result, they do not have continuous satellite coverage. They replenished the constellation with eight spare satellites. The second-generation satellite constellation, which corrects the current problem, should start being launched during the summer of 2009. That doesn’t help much now though.

Their web site has a tool that calculates the best times for connectivity for your area.

http://www.globalstarusa.com/en/optimum_tool/

Wow. That blows. If I were you…well, I'd go back to REI and whine at them and demand my money back for selling a piece of junk that doesn't do what it should do. Just saying…..

If their birds are down — that would explain the "no refund" policy! If the above is true, then I would NEVER do business with such an unethical company!

But much more than that — lives depend on having satellite coverage, correct? I haven't used these gadgets before, but if the company has coverage gaps but still advertises full coverage — I think that's lawsuit time!

If I were you, I would — at a minimum — contact REI HQ and let them know about the gaps and urge them to stop selling the gadget immediately!!!

I might even consult with a product liability lawyer…

Roleigh…

The wait in an open space is about 15 to 20 minutes. There is no way to tell if the signal is being sent/received. It wasn't until I got back from a two hour hike in a sparsely wooded area that I discovered that NONE of my messages or tracks had been sent. The same happened the next hike, even though I held it away from my body the entire time. Apparently it doesn't really work while moving, or without a totally clear sky.

I don't believe that I'll have a problem returning the unit to REI ($149.99). I'm now in a "dispute" with GlobalStar on my credit card transaction with them ($157.93). When I spoke to the only person I could reach at GlobalStar I was told that there was no supervisor or anyone in authority there. Sounds really fishy, doesn't it.

John:

It's none of my business… but I think you should share your bad experience with the appropriate folks at REI HQ and urge them to test out the units for themselves. There's no question whatsoever that you'll get your refund — but if your experience is anything more than a "once off" — then REI (and others) shouldn't be selling this gadget that lives may well depend on.

I have one of their satellite phones and experience the dead time on a regular basis. At the present time it is “normal” to have 10 to 20 minutes of dead time with Globalstar. Most space based systems like GPS at line of sight based systems. If you can’t see the satellite, you can’t communicate with it. Another problem is the frequency they use has trouble going through foliage. The military refers to this as the “triple canopy” problem. Hiking through the wooded hills or mountains just compounds the problem of connecting on a timely manner.

I am not an apologist for Globalstar, but they do offer refunds to those who have their satellite phones and want to terminate the contract.

Er, yes …

A full review on the SPOT unit by BPL staff around the world should be published fairly soon.

Cheers
Roger

I appreciate your warning. I've been thinking about getting a sat phone. I'd assumed (you know what that does) that they worked just about anywhere on the planet. The company definitely sucks for not warning customers. I agree with Ben that this could cost lives.

John,

Just to clarify, are you having issues getting a refund on the subscription or the hardware. REI should take care of you on the hardware.

Also, what geographic region are you in that is experiencing issues?

The statement that you get no confirmation from the device of the signal sent isn't entirely true. You have to read the manual to know what to look for.

Also, as I mentioned in a previous thread the best way to get a quick fix is just to leave the unit on during the trip you'll be using it rather than turning it on and waiting. Apparently you can expect around 1 yr of battery life in standby mode. I've used it dozens of hours that way and still have nearly full battery life (checked independantly by my own multimeter). I've been using it with none of the issues you have posted about but if it is indeed a satellite issue then that could be the cause.

It's the GlobalStar subscription I'm having the problem with. The manufacturer actually stated that they would refund the item cost if I'd bought it from them. I bought it from REI, so that's still not a problem.

When the LED's blink simultaneously that it's on and functioning, then I believed that it was… at first. I had one occasion where I let it sit while I was having breakfast at a wide open location. I found later that it had worked… but as soon as I started my walk, it no longer was functioning with a signal, although the indicators were identical.

I won't even carry this with me again. I might as well carry a small 7.7 oz brick for all the good it does.

Based upon working on the GPS IIF Satellite program for two years, the complexity of the hardware and software is so overwelming that "reliability" is compromised because schedule/cost pressure is high to finally get the thing launched. It takes decades to work it all out after spending billions of tax-payer money.
The test requirements are very tough to meet because launched "birds" get very hot, then very cold from direct sunlight. Plus the vacumm of space adds more environmental operating stress to the system.
So wait it out before buying.
Craig

And not to mention space debris and radiation…

Quoddy thanks for posting your warning. Hopefully you get some if not all your service activation money back. I have to admit that I had been looking at this for hiking in steep mountainous terrain with snow still on the ground (ie. The High Sierra in May). Doesn't sound like it will offer much in terms of security for the weight of the item for the next year or so.

I've been testing the SPOT informally for a few months (day hikes, vacations, drives to/from work, etc.) and have had very good success getting messages received. I'd say that in general if it's a situation where you'd expect to get good GPS coverage, your SPOT message will get through. The important thing is to make sure it has a good view of the sky for 10-15 minutes after initial fix, as it will send the message multiple times once a GPS fix is acquired. (The unit does not have to be stationary once it gets its fix–I've sent dozens of messages successfully from the dashboard of a moving car…)

While it's not a replacement for a real PLB, I believe the SPOT is more than adequate for keeping friends/family appraised of your progress, especially if you send OK messages at every opportunity.

Mhh,I have had good experience's with my spot unit, are you sure yours is not faulty?

hello all

i've had a global star phone for about a year now and going into it i knew there were problems with the first generation sattelites and plan on a new launch in 2009. last year 8 were launched to replace the ones having amplifier problems until 2009 or sooner when a new fleet of over 45 or so will be in service. the contract was 49.00 a month unlimited service to north america and eastern carrib. granted its not a fulltime connection but i gotta tell ya its always worked when i needed it i use it in the sierra as well los padres. with this other device(spot) a warning should have been in the contract i'm hoping with the new launch things will get better. globalstars technology is really ahead of the rest real cutting edge and the handset is only a little over 7oz the sound is clear and crisp no lag or warble i've delt with globalstar billing and was really impressed with the service and john if you want i have a corp.phone # let me know

Doug,

I have had the same level of service. I have the older phone, while it is heavier, it also provides the same sound quality. I loan my phone to my friends going to the Sierras, Lost Coast, or other remote locations and they have had no problems connecting when the birds are overhead. If there is no signal, just wait a few minutes and it will connect.

If it were mine, I would try it again using the tips given in this thread, and if it still didn't work, I would re-read the fine language in the contract, and any provided literature.

After checking these, if I was still lead to believe I should have service on a steady basis in most locales, I think I would dispute the bill on the credit card. Documenting the times and places you tried to use the SPOT might be useful in the dispute.

I wish I had read this forum before my purchase. I did read an earlier forum which was relatively positive. I have had mine activated since last Sunday, I have yet to receive any messages despite many attempts from different places and despite leaving it on all day. The customer service person I spoke with had me activate the Help feature, still nothing. Was told to change position. I live on a higher area, with a pretty good view of the sky. If I can't get it to work in my front yard, I don't think I want to trust it for peace of mind, much less my life. The unit appears to function properly…lights blinking in unison before and after each Okay send, but no messages! Those of you with & without problems, what area of country do you live? I live in WV (which I expect is a lot like Vermont, mountainous). At this point, I have little confidence that this unit will work when I need it. It was a gift from my Mom to give her some peace of mind when I backpack; it might create more worry instead.

The well-known problems with Globalstar sat phones are not related to any problems you're having:
http://www.backcountryworld.com/showpost.php?p=27764&postcount=8
As for Spot's performance, based upon many reports at forums about backcountry skiing and ski mountaineering (as well as my own experience), Help (and by extension 911) messages seem to get through both reliably and reasonably quickly (although coverage in places like Alaska might be trickier, but then again, Spot already says as much). But OK messages are lagged so much that they can't be used as a substitute for the Tracking feature (available for an extra charge), but then again, the Tracking feature doesn't work so well either.
So the verdict seems to be, for emergency use and approximate updates on position (i.e., "just checking in"), Spot works as promised, although as a real-time constant update on position, not so great.

SPOT will not send an OK message until it has a GPS fix. Like most GPS units, it can take several minutes to get a fix, especially if the unit has been off for awhile or has been moved a large distance. Once it gets the fix, it sends three messages over the course of several minutes. In my experience, SPOT gets a fix about as well as a typical 12-channel non-SIRF Garmin (e.g. Foretrex/eTrex 101). If the lights blink out of phase, you know it didn't get a fix, and thus no OK message was sent.

For me, the OK button works with very high reliability, but I generally use it when stopping for a lunch/snack break, at camp, or while otherwise stationary at a location where I'd normally expect to get GPS coverage–open sky, low horizon, etc. I also leave it laying out for ~15 minutes after activated to provide ample time to get a fix and send the messages. This usage pattern may not be suitable for all SPOT users, but for my purposes (providing status updates to friends/relatives), it works very well. (I have not used or tested the tracking feature, but expect it would not work as reliably, just as a stationary GPS fix is almost always better than an on-the-run tracking fix.)

The Help and 911 buttons *will* transmit without waiting for a fix. I'd expect that SPOT will continue to try to get a fix while repeating these messages.