Alchohol Stove Advise Needed

The volumes you are cooking are possible with alcohol. I use a Caldera Cone with a 2 liter pot for cooking 4-5 cups water plus dried food (such as noodles). I add the noodles/pasta/rice to the cold water at the start, bring it to a boil, then put in cozy for ~ 10 minutes. The only down side is that it takes longer to boil the food with alcohol than with a Giga power, and you can't conveniently simmer food.

As for fumes, well you shouldn't really be cooking in an enclosed or unventilated area no matter what fuel you use. This includes canister fumes. Other than that, it may depend on what else is in your 'alcohol'. Most stuff sold for fuel is not pure alcohol, so there may be unknown impurities which are best not inhaled. Ventilation is the solution…

It would be possible to use an alcohol stove, but I won’t recommend it for several reasons:

1) Your breakfast is at (or for many alcohol stoves beyond) their ability to do in a single sitting. That means that you would sometimes need to do some of your cooking, stove will run out of fuel, wait for the stove to cool down enough that it’s safe to add fuel, and then finish your cooking.

2) It’s going to take an alcohol stove a while to boil 3L of water. The kids I take out aren’t the most patient… especially when they are HUNGRY.

3) From a weight perspective… sounds like you are cooking enough that the higher energy / oz of the iso butane would offset the higher weight of the canister stove (e.g. total carry weight for the canister would be less than the alcohol )

4) Safety… unless you have exceptionally careful 8/10y olds, I would be concerned about the risk of the stove getting knocked over. It’s never good for a stove to be knocked over, but it’s less of a mess with a canister stove than while a liquid fuel like alcohol.

As to the safety of the fumes… provided you have reasonable ventilation, and you are burning a reasonably clean variety of alcohol, you should be fine. Drinking the alcohol wouldn’t be a good idea, but you know that. If you want the full low-down see

zenstoves fuel comparisons

Does the 10 minutes in a cozy just work for easy stuff like angel hair pasta, ramen noodles, and instant rice ? ie: Would I need to simmer wide noodles like Fettucinni ?

Also, which type of alchohol stove (ie: Pepsi stove, cat stove, etc) would be best for 5 cup noodle dishes ? Do I need a bigger than standard stove to hold enough alchohol ? If I have to, I could cook two 2.5 cup portions by bringing two pots or eating in shifts – but I'd rather not.

Also, can the alchohol stoves be used on top of a nylon, plastic or tyvek ground sheet ? We often spread one out like a picnic blanket at all sit on it at meal times – with the stove in the middle…

I'm planning on using the denatured alchohol available from Walmart (SLX ?). Usually, just in the open, but we will be gathered & cooking under a tarp if it's raining(pitched high enough for 4 people to sit under, but low to the ground on the windward side).

I think the denaturing ingredients for SLX that someone else posted a while back were methanol with something like 100 ppm toxicity and also another chemical with around 10 ppm toxicity. Does anyone know how easily the toxins are absorped through breathing them or contact with the skin ?

Thanks.

I just saw the 2nd set of comments.

I usually heat the cocoa water seperately from the oatmeal &/or noodle water. Just because my pot won't hold that much at once !

Even without the cocoa water, we're still talking about 4-6 cups for breakfast, but since it's just hot not boiling I'm figuring the 4 cups of water with 1 cup of wide Fettucinni noodles is probably the limiting factor.

I didn't think about spilling though – that could be bad considering the kids like to stir the noodles. However, if I could get the noodles to cook in a feezer bag in a decent amount of time so I didn't have to wash the pot they'd definitely be giving up stirring !

4-6 cups of water is quite posible with the Caldera Cone system. This comes complete with a stove that will hold more than enough fuel to do the job, and is almost impossible to tip over. It is more stable than any canister stove I have used, and you can even stir the pot without using a handle or potlifter to stabilze it. The only thing you can't do is use it on a surface that burns or melts easily.

I have used many canister AND alcohol systems, and the Caldera Cone is the only one I would consider for cooking larger volumes of food with alcohol. As for foods like fettucini, you can try this yourself at home without buying a new stove. Just add you cup of pasta to your 4 cups cold water, bring to the boil slowly (like over 10-12 minutes), then remove and place in a well insulated container for another 10 minutes (maybe wrap in a duvet or something). If this comes out OK then the Caldera cone for 2 quart mama's kitchen pot plus cozy will work.

If it doesn't work then you should probably just stick to canisters, or maybe something like a JetBoil for groups.

John,

From your first post you will need up to 300ml ( about 10 fluid oz) of alcohol per day or roughly 240 gm ( about 8.5 oz wt. ) that’s half a pound of alcohol a day. So there is probably not a significant wt saving going to alcohol. I agree with Mark V. who has several good points.

That said, if you still want to try I would consider a large stove like the MinibullDesigns Sketti and your own pot.

Click Here and go 3/4 of the way down the page.

Or Allison’s suggestion of a Caldera cone set up is good, too

TrailDesigns

As far as alcohol poisoning- The SLX brand is around a 50:50 mixture of methanol to ethanol. Methanol is pretty toxic and can be absorbed through the skin. It is exposure time dependent so if you spill a little on your hand and wipe it off right away you will likely have no problems. If you soak your hand in it for 10 min. that’s different. One study I saw had “volunteers” submerge their leg in a vat of 85% gasoline and 15% methanol for up to 5 minutes. the total absorbed methanol after that exposure was still only 4% of the maximum allowable dose. By the way, the treatment for an overdose of methanol is -ethanol.

Ethanol ( the other half of SLX denatured alcohol ) is not as toxic and in fact is the stuff people drink socially. However, NEVER NEVER NEVER DRINK DENATURED ALCOHOL!!!! IT IS “DENATURED” SO YOU CAN’T DRINK IT. Still, most folks think that careful use by adults of denatured alcohol FOR STOVES is a low risk activity, but YMMV.

-Mark

Wow, 8.5 oz of fuel per day is a lot. The 4 ounce MSR fuel canister (8.5 oz total weight) I'm using is lasting about 4-6 days. Any idea how much alchohol this would translate into needing ?

Mostly, I'm not actually boiling the water (just heating it to a simmering temperature) for oatmeal, cocoa, & soup. The Fettucinni is a "Bring to a rolling boil, then vigorous simmer for 10 minutes" type of operation.

Also, I think Mark's probably right about kids not having a lot of patience around mealtimes… Any idea how much longer it takes to cook the types of meals I'm talking about with alchohol rather than a canister stove ?

ps: I looked at the Caldera system but I'd like to use a MYOG stove & windscreen if it will work for the volume of food I need to cook. I would probably prefer a pepsi stove rather than a cat stove (just because it looks more "finished") if it would work for my needs. Any advise ?

Thanks.

If you are using 8.5 ounces of alcohol a day your style doesn't seem conducive to alcohol stoves.

> can the alchohol stoves be used on top of a nylon, plastic or tyvek ground sheet ?

NO

Unless you want a large hole burnt through the middle. Or have a large table to put there.

I haven't tried an alchohol stove before – 8.5 oz of fuel per day was somebody's estimate. However, I'm hoping the estimate is much higher than the actual amount I'd use since the 4 ounce MSR fuel canister (8.5 oz total weight) I'm using is lasting about 4-6 days. Any idea how much alchohol this would translate into needing ?

Mostly, I'm not actually boiling the water (just heating it to a simmering temperature) for oatmeal, cocoa, & soup. The Fettucinni is a "Bring to a rolling boil, then vigorous simmer for 10 minutes" type of operation.

I'm also curious about how much the cooking time would change if I started using an alchohol stove (and a pot cozy for simmering if that's really required to cut down on fuel). Right now it takes about 12-15 minutes total for the Fettucinni (depending on how long I simmer it). Any idea how long a Pepsi stove (etc) would take ?

Thanks.

I have seen meals such as you describe cooked on Trangia stoves where it is much easier to control the flame, but simple pepsi can stoves are less controllable and therefore you are more likely to have a rolling boil, and no simmer.

With regard to the Lipton meals you describe, I have boiled them for about 3 minutes and then let them sit in a cozy for about 10 minutes. For me the pasta is al dente (most of the time).

However, I would also suggest that different meals = different stoves, that is the type of stove you carry impacts on the types of cooking you do.

White gas stoves and and propane stoves allow more variation in temperature whilst the simple pepsi can stove have much less control and are therefore suited to boil and cozy type meals. The exception with regard to alcohol stoves however is the Trangia, but that comes at a weight penalty.

Whatever you do I strongly advise you to try it at home "in less than ideal conditions" before taking the family on a trip and experiment there.

John

There is a thread here [http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=10448]
that should answer most of your questions. I think you'll find a homemade pepsi style stove is just not very efficient, stable or fast for large volumes of cooking. Still, there's no harm in making one and just giving it a try. Keep in mind that with kids around you especially need to consider stability. There are quite a few good MYOG threads around to make stable pot supports and windscreens to go with your stove.

I like and use alcohol stoves for one or at most two person trips. The more people that are using the stove and the more water that is being boiled the less sense an alcohol stove makes. I'd look at other choices for that amount of water.