Dec 25, 2007 at 7:27 am #1226436
Reginald DonaldsonBPL Member
@worthLocale: Wind River Range
I found the first posting educational and pose the same question related to water sports. It is my objective to apply the concepts of ultra-light backpacking into canoe paddling. Below is my list and I am open to suggestions on how to do things differently or change what I am using. I frequent the far black spruce forests and bogs of Northern Ontario and occasionally cross into the sub-tundra. I frequently experience all of the following on my trips: rain, 30 mph winds, thick visible clouds of mosquitoes/black flies, and temperatures from the low 40’s to the low 90’s. Because I run rapids and have waves splashing into the canoe or have to wade or line the canoe it is common to be wet below the knees. I introduce redundancy into what I pack because there can be multiple days in a row of wet weather with rapid running that make it difficult to dry out. Furthermore, you never know when you go for an accidental swim.
Base: Ibex Qu-T shirt (always wear)
Insulation: SmartWool microweight long johns for cool mornings and days
Sun, light bug or light wind protection: Ex Officio Sunblock check long sleeve shirt (almost always wearing)
Rain/Windlayer: Kokatat Gore-Tex Pac-Lite Rain Anorak
Base: REI Midweight MTS Boxers
SmartWool microweight long johns for cool mornings and days
Insulation: Quest Convertible nylon pants
Rain/Windlayer: Cabela's Gortex PacLite Rainy River pants
Base: SmartWool Expedition Trekking socks
Shell: Salomon Techamphibian Sandals or Chota Nunavut Mukluk boots if it is going to be a cold trip but not both
Base: Icebreaker Balaclava – Lite (rarely use)
Insulation: PossumDown beanie hat
Shell: Sunday Afternoons Sun hat
Bug protection: head net
Handwear: Neoprene paddling gloves
REI Midweight MTS Boxers
Ibex Qu-T shirt
SmartWool midweight long johns
Patagonia El Cap 1/4-zip pullover (worn mostly in camp when not moving enough to stay warm)
Campmor Polartec fleece 200 jacket (only brought for extreme cold & wet conditions, rarely needed)
Bug protection: mesh bug jacket unless I am in the tundra then it is the Original Bug Shirt
Quest Convertible nylon pants
2 pairs of SmartWool Expedition Trekking socks (1 for bedtime & another when I can not get my 1st pair dry)Dec 25, 2007 at 3:18 pm #1413700
Thanks for posting your list. Without any river/canoe experience, I'm thinking of your list from a flat water, (BW/Quetico only) perspective. A September trip near the Canada/US border may be a rough temperature equal to your more northerly summer? trips. In general, my inclination would be to back off a couple of degrees of warmth from your list, and I have a feeling that may have to do with the heat generated while traveling on flat water. The substitutions below reflect my approach to fall season lake travel.
For example, for Torso, I would try the Ex Officio next to skin and trade the Qu-T for an epic shell to layer over for cool or drizzle, or remove if warm. Also, I would try to bridge the redundant long john uppers, that I assume are also worn at night, into chilly morning attire that could be removed and packed prior to travel. This could eliminate the redundancy, but I agree that the one top would need to stay dry. Finally, I would appreciate the option of full zip ventilation on the rain gear.
For Lower Body, I'd be tempted by the same long john lower/ epic substitution. Even with temperatures in the upper thirties, I've not been tempted by a baselayer when paddling and portaging. Epic pants are a great shell for portaging on cool wet trails, and paired with the nylon convertables, would probably dry faster than the baselayer. The redundant sleeping baselayer lowers could be used for cold mornings and evenings, if kept dry.
I would add camp footware, for comfort and redundancy.
I would add wool liner gloves.
For September Headgear, I would substitute a Seattle Sombrero and an thin ear band for the balaclava and Sun. Aft., and use the sombrero for sun protection during the short days. I realize sun and bug protection are more important in your scenario.
For in camp warmth, a hooded synthetic jacket might make a good substitute for the beanie, the El Cap, and the 200 fleece, and I would leave out the redundant Qu-t. I find similar necessity and pleasure in soft dry socks and extra briefs, but would take my chances with Sept. mosquitoes. Again, I understand that you can't
If I recall, some of your trips run two to three weeks. That, combined with your relative remoteness makes the comparison that I'm offering, weak. I think your redundancy is well thought through, and I assume that your organization and packing validate the redundancy.Dec 25, 2007 at 5:35 pm #1413705
Interesing posts becuase my clothing list for water sports is very different. When I KNOW I will be wet, I leave behind the wool and down and go totally synthetic. I also leave behind any WP/B pants. That is what I would recommmend for you as well Reginald, however it is clear you have more experience than I with canoeing, and wool is working well for you.
IME, wool takes too long to dry and stretches terribly when wet. Down of course is useless when wet. WP/B pants are a hinderence when water is flowing up the inside of your pants; just takes longer to subsequently dry out because of the WP/"B" membrane.
My only such water sport is sawanobori (canyoneering, but going upstream). I do this sport in Summer, but the water is melting snow/ice, so I can experience a temperature range of 30C on the approach, 5C/wet in the canyon, then 30C on the hike out again, all in one day.
Base: Synthetic 1/4 zip long arm top
Insulation: Montbell thermawrap
Shell: TheNorthFace DIAD
Base: Supplex Nylon pants- REI Saharas
Insulation: Patagonia capilene 1
Shell: Montbell wind pants
Base: synthetic 5-toe socks
Insulation: thin polyester(suit) socks
Shell: Inov-8 330s, or sawa-tabi
Base/Insulation: REI synthetic balclava as helmet liner
Shell: multi-sport helmet
Base/Insulation: Synthetic leather mechanic's gloves
'Shell': leather belay gloves
So for the approach/departure I can unzip the top, pull up the sleeves, and zip off the pant legs, then reverse all that when heading into the water.
Aside from these clothing changes, somethings never change; I always carry the '10 essentials', even for a day trip. A friend of mine had to spend a miserable and cold night out waiting for a helicopter after he broke his leg on a sawanobori trip. I want my own eventual night out to be safer and more comfortable, either for myself or my team member.Dec 26, 2007 at 2:05 pm #1413753
Your post,with its modular theme, reinforced the dual nature of my usual clothing regime for autumn canoeing. To elaborate:
In camp, I replace paddling gloves with light wool. Since I don't pack a pot gripper, the wool provides the dexterity and heat resistance for handling stove and pot. If I'm planning to use much wood/fire, I'll include one, or sometimes a pair of leather gloves.
For traveling footware, I use "Workboots" from NRS. These have an integral neoprene sock and are comfortable until some intangible combination of water and air temperatures dips into the mid-forties. "Sealskinz waterblockers" add warmth when temps or exertion levels fall off. My feet are generally warmer when portaging , so routes dominated by paddling often call for the waterblockers. In camp I'll switch to wool socks and a pair of athletic shoes. I'm careful about keeping these dry.
During my last October canoe trip, I brought five leg garments. In camp I wore a baselayer, covered with a pair of Reeds, and if still cold, which I was during a couple of the mornings and evenings, I layered over with supplex shorts. Traveling, I wore some combination of Epic pants, the supplex shorts, and a homemade pair of 3/4 length silnylon pants. I used the shorts alone on two mid-seventy afternoons, but usually wore them over the Epic pants. For the intermittent rain during two of our travel days, I layered the 3/4s over the Epic. The 3/4s kept my thighs dry while paddling, and the bottom hook and loop gusset adjustment allowed me to hike the 3/4s and other layer, up to mid thigh, tighten and secure for wet landings. This may sound like a hassle, but takes only a few seconds. The fabrics avoid saturation and I have a view of the tops of the waterblockers if I'm wearing them. Ironically, the waterproof socks reduce the depth of water in which I can land or depart a portage. The top of the socks limit water depth to a realistic nine to twelve inches; without them I won't wet my pants until depth reaches mid-thigh. Generally speaking the three traveling garments didn't see any in camp use, and the base/Reed didn't see the route.
With a few regular exceptions, (rain parka) the same was basically true for the five (base, LS supplex, Epic windshirt, synthetic parka, WP parka ,torso garments. The baselayer and parka in camp, the supplex, windshirt, and parka for travel.
Given my interest in a dry baselayer, socks, and insulating parka, I don't know that there is a way around this dualism. (Yea, yea, Hig and Erin.) In fact, we're thinking of adding a power stretch layer to the garment list. I could see PS as a warm substitute (probably too warm) for the supplex layer. But in the case of an surprise immersion, it might give us a few more minutes.
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