Katabatic vs. other companies

20d fabric is easily 2-3oz heavier per quilt than 10d fabric. -Tim Marshall Owner; Enlightened Equipment

Tim, do you distribute down where this is less down along the backside like katabatic does?

Forgive me for not understanding the question. Could you rephrase? Being a quilt there is no down in the back, there is no back. -Tim

I don't consider the Katabatic quilts truly quilts. They are more of a hybrid between a bag and a quilt.

Just wondering why you feel it's more of a hybrid then a quilt? I own both a Zpacks quilt and Katabtic quilt and Zpacks makes a great quilt, but Katabtic quilt is my favorite hands down!

I guess it is because of the strap system that locks you into place, which is really no difference than the Big Agnes, amongst others, that are essentially sleeping bags with a sleeve for a pad. The Katabatic doesn't have the sleeve but the strap system that locks you into place does the same thing. It is a hoodless sleeping bag. I drape a quilt over the pad because it is a quilt. Subtle but in my opinion a difference.

I'm quilt shopping now and have been considering these issues. I don't see how the Katabatic is more bag like than an EE Enigma – the strapping system EE uses 'locks you in' as much Katabatic. Although I don't think you've used either system if you describe it as being locked in, still very different to a full bag… not having a go, more saying if you had used it I'd be surprised if you'd be saying that :)

I do realize your quilts are open, but im referring to the flaps that sit over your back. I've heard some companies fill less down in there, because youre laying on it, so it compressed anyway. That way you can distribute more down to the sides and top, where is more useful.

Katabatic underrates their quilts by ~ 10 degrees in my experience (I've owned two); it's simply due to the amount of fill they put in a "X degree" quilt- if you compare their fill amount to other quilt manufacturers in the same rated quilt- Katabatic typically has more fill. I don't think there is anything secret going on. They do make a quality quilt, that is a fact (their fit/finish is nearly flawless). You will pay dearly for that quality quilt, that is also a fact. Too dearly?, possibly

Sean, With ours the fill volumes are calculated for equal loft In all baffles. You can move the down into the footbox if you want more there and less under you but because of our baffle shape can't move down from the edges to the center, but equally it won't accidentally move from the center to the edges every night. -Tim

Lachlan – very correct. I have only used two separate EE quilts (and various others) and not the Katabatic. But I don't lock myself into any system, choosing to remove the pad straps, which don't lock you in anyway. Maybe I am looking at the Katabatic system incorrectly, but it looks like the sides are locked down with the clips. Is this not the case?

I think the systems are fairly similar – both clip the sides of the quilt to lines fixed around the pad. EE does this with male and female clips and you can slide the strap side clip along – whereas the Katabatic setup is a cord rather than a strap and has a clip that hooks or bites onto this. Personally I've always been super happy with the function of the EE system, especially with the new elastic straps you just slip on… but I guess the Katabatic system could be considered better in a few ways: – I imagine it's lighter as cord should be lighter than strapping – The clips can be attached without fixing it to the line so it slides smoothly. This might be nice in warmish weather, but I've never found sliding the EE clips around as required to be very hard, so a free moving position isn't that big a deal. – Katabatic has a secondary set of mitten clips up on the sides of the back to attach to the cords and clamp the setup down further. I've been quite happy sleeping with the EE clips right under my body on inflatable pads so I don't see this feature adding benefit, but it's there.

I have the Katabatic Chisos 40F, and the EE Revelation 10F. I seem to be sleeping colder these days, and was not warm enough at 40F in the Chisos, but was fine at 22F in the Revelation. Not had it down to 10F yet. I find the clips on sides of the Chisos (there is no "back") that attach to the string around the mat come undone as you move around in the night, but the EE clips attach to elastic and do not come undone. On a warm night I fasten the clips down one side only and can push the quilt off, then just pull it back over when it's cools down. The foot boxes on the Katabatic quilts and the EE Enigma are the same in that they are sewn shut, and you cannot easily cool your feet down, but the Revelation can be opened right up like a blanket and you can stick your feet out the bottom. Yet when it's cold out you can zip the foot box shut and cinch it tight. I really appreciate this flexibility, and would not get a fixed foot box again for summer use. I opted for the10D fabric inside and out on the Rev, and it is plenty strong enough, lighter and breathes more too. The workmanship on both quilts is excellent.

I find the baffling on my EE Rev to be awesome. The down stays exactly where it's supposed to be all through out the night. It just does not move. BUT, if you have an idiot friend who decides your sacred backpacking quilt is a cheap couch blanket and somehow, through flailing, squeezing or slinging the quilt around, moves all the down to the footbox, it is really quite hard to redistribute it throughout the quilt again. (Talk about a run on compound sentence) I don't understand how he did this, but it happened, and I spent 2 hours trying to move the down back evenly throughout the quilt. A couple left side baffles were emptied, and all the down from those ended up in the right side baffles. Scooting the down around those corners in the footbox and back up the other side is tough. This is NOT a knock against the baffle design. It just goes to show how well their baffling works, unless you have an idiot friend who treats it like a fleece blanket. Under normal circumstances, the down just does NOT move, and I reallllly like that about my Rev20.

would it be possible for you guys to put a zipper on an enigma? That way I don't have to have a cold spot at the foot box?

"moves all the down to the footbox, it is really quite hard to redistribute it throughout the quilt again. (Talk about a run on compound sentence) I don't understand how he did this, but it happened, and I spent 2 hours trying to move the down back evenly throughout the quilt. A couple left side baffles were emptied, and all the down from those ended up in the right side baffles. Scooting the down around those corners in the footbox and back up the other side is tough." I had this problem after I washed my quilt. Hand washed it with Down Wash, tumbled dried on really low heat in a industrial dryer with tennis balls, and all the down migrated and was very difficult to redistribute.

Sean, We have talked about an enigma w/full zip. We are waiting to see how the convert is received. To do it right requires custom made zippers that I'm not ready to invest in until I know the convert is something people want. -Tim

"I had this problem after I washed my quilt. Hand washed it with Down Wash, tumbled dried on really low heat in a industrial dryer with tennis balls, and all the down migrated and was very difficult to redistribute." Yep…me too. I'm STILL trying to get it all where I want it!

Tim, Do you have any pro tips on how to redistribute the down evenly after washing?

"moves all the down to the footbox, it is really quite hard to redistribute it throughout the quilt again. (Talk about a run on compound sentence) I don't understand how he did this, but it happened, and I spent 2 hours trying to move the down back evenly throughout the quilt. A couple left side baffles were emptied, and all the down from those ended up in the right side baffles. Scooting the down around those corners in the footbox and back up the other side is tough." -Sam Riggle "I had this problem after I washed my quilt. Hand washed it with Down Wash, tumbled dried on really low heat in a industrial dryer with tennis balls, and all the down migrated and was very difficult to redistribute." -K. Kading K. Kading I should chime in here because I think I may have your exact quilt, an all black Revelation 20, traded to another forum member for a Katabatic and then sold to me. Is this likely? Either way I was able to move the down around. There was very little down in the top "chamber" ( the one that's divided,) which would normally be right on top of me when sleeping. Every other section seemed overly filled. I noticed that there are small ~2 inch openings in the baffles, running down the center of the top of the quilt, connecting each area that's otherwise totally sealed off. I carefully moved down from one to the next while I watched a couple episodes of 30 Rock. It took a while but it turned out fine.

I understand the problem. When the down is still slightly damp deep inside the outside of the bag can feel quite dry, which is deceptive, but the damp down will NOT redistribute. My solution was to give the down another day to dry – in hot weather. Once the down was really dry right through, redistributing the down was easy. Just keep lightly beating (slapping) the thick areas when the down has 'inflated', and the air movement will carry the down where you want it. This works fine when the down is really dry. If it does not work for you, the down is not properly dry. Cheers

"K. Kading I should chime in here because I think I may have your exact quilt, an all black Revelation 20, traded to another forum member for a Katabatic and then sold to me. Is this likely? Either way I was able to move the down around. There was very little down in the top "chamber" ( the one that's divided,) which would normally be right on top of me when sleeping. Every other section seemed overly filled. I noticed that there are small ~2 inch openings in the baffles, running down the center of the top of the quilt, connecting each area that's otherwise totally sealed off. I carefully moved down from one to the next while I watched a couple episodes of 30 Rock. It took a while but it turned out fine." Duke, I'm not sure that was mine. I had an enigma, not a relevation. Did you purchase it from Doug Knox? I traded an Enigma plus cash to him for the Palisade. Admittedly, the down distribution problem had soured me on EE's baffle design, hence the reason for trading for the Palisade. Can you send pictures of the two inch openings? I had no idea they were there. Had I known that, I wouldn't have traded the Enigma in the first place!

You're right about that, it's an Enigma and I did get it from Doug (advertised as a Revelation when I bought it and I'm still mixed up I guess.) I'll take a photo of the quilt turned inside out. You'll see that the seams stop for 2-3 inches right in the middle.