ZPacks Challenger Rain Jacket – how does it work?

[Pedro Arvy]

I have read on the website http://zpacks.com/accessories/wpb_jacket.shtml that the ZPacks Challenger Rain Jacket is: Constructed from 1.62 oz/sqyd Waterproof Breathable Cuben Fiber material. The material is a three layer laminate consisting of an eVent membrane on the inside, Dyneema fibers in the center, and a thin layer of nylon on the outside. So there are three layers: A – eVent membrane on the inside B – Dyneema fibers in the center C – Thin layer of nylon on the outside So which part is Cuben, is it layer B? Also eVent breathes but Cuben does not, so how does moisture pass from the eVent to the outside world through an impermeable layer? Lastly that means the eVent is next to skin. I thought these waterproof breathable layers were quite thin and easily subject to wear from rubbing. Wouldn't the eVent just be destroyed from delamination with the rubbing under should straps and so on?

[Ian]

Hi Pedro. If you use the search function here at BPL, you'll find a post where Richard Nisely tested this fabric. Edit I was going to post the link but my iPad doesn't play nice on this website and won't paste the url here. Search "Lab Tests – Zpacks Waterproof Breathable Event Fabric"

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

That's the old eVent-version of the jacket.

[Ian]

I didn't realize there was a fabric update. Off to google I go.

[Ian]

Re read Richard's report and it only mentions it as a "WPB Cuben" On Zpacks material page, they describe the current fabric as "1.62 oz/sqyd "Challenger" Waterproof Breathable Cuben Fiber-eVent This fabric has a waterproof-breathable eVent membrane on the inside, Dyneema threads in the center for high tear strength, and a thin layer of black Nylon on the outside for improved abrasion resistance and looks. The strength, waterproofness, and breathability have all proved to be very good. Our jackets for example are breathable enough to sleep in or hike in (if it is cold out) without getting clammy. Due to the high cost of this fabric it is sold in half yard increments. One half yard would get you a piece 18" by 54". A typical jacket might take about 2 linear yards. Scroll down the page for waterproof zippers." I've little doubt that the fabric has been refined since Richard's report in 2013 but I suppose I missed it when the fabric changed.

[Peter S]

Good questions Pedro – I've been thinking the exact same things since it was announced.

[Sam Riggle]

I'm pretty sure it isn't exactly the cuben fiber we are all familiar with. I think the dyneema threads are laminated to the eVent membrane and nylon rather than to Mylar. So, there are still spaces between the dyneema threads for moisture to escape. Y'all probably knew that already. Sorry. But Ryan Jordan really likes the Challenger Rain gear, right? I thought I read somewhere he replaced all his rain gear and maybe even his windshirt with it. IDK, Im sure I just parroted known info.

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

Forget the idea of Cuben + a layer of eVent. All the three layers together make WP/B Cuben.

[Kate Magill]

I haven't used one, but I've kept my eye on the Challenger jacket for some time. According to the website: "Our original Cuben Fiber rain jackets were white in color. We have now switched over to a new version of the waterproof-breathable material with a thin layer of nylon on the outside. The nylon gives it a nice solid color, and better abrasion protection. … The abrasion resistance is much improved. Unlike the previous generation of material we didn't have any wear under our shoulder straps or from our backpacks rubbing against our backs." Sounds like the main change is that the outer layer is a coated hybrid, rather than straight cuben. Basically the same change they made with packs and other high-wear items that need abrasion resistance.

[Ian]

It's probably important to note that performance differences between fabrics measured in a lab may quite possibly be impercievable to the end user. I'm personally rolling the dice on a Goretex Pro jacket the next time around but not unlike my current polywhatever lined jacket, I'm not expecting miracles. I do know that the 2014 (or was it 2015?) squamish I currently own didn't test all that well in his lab but it's one of my favorite pieces of gear. Richard provides good data, it's up to us to determine the significance of the data.

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

"I do know that the 2014 (or was it 2015?) squamish I currently own didn't test all that well in his lab but it's one of my favorite pieces of gear." Well, what you call "didn't test all that well". A CFM of 43 is still very good and a HH of 70 mm is still ok to good for a windshell. :-)

[Ian]

I could have stated it better as "didn't test as well as previous versions" but this illustrates my point. It may not be the best version of this wind jacket out there but it has exceeded my expectations since buying it. Perhaps I'd perceive a difference between it and one of its predecessors if I were to subject them to a side by side comparison, but perhaps not. I like it and am officially out of the wind shell market. I've yet to wear a shell where I didn't feel clammy in it from time to time, and I'm quickly burning through what I consider to be viable options. I hope to be pleasantly surprised but remain skeptical that my future Alpha SV will breathe appreciably better than a similar jacket made of Zpacks cuben eVent. I'm buying it for reasons that have more to do with perceived durability and features than breathability. If it surprises me and actually breaths better than my current poly lined jacket, I'll consider that to be a bonus. But that's for a winter/alpine shell since for three season non technical hikes, I've transitioned back to a poncho and couldn't be happier.

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

"It may not be the best version of this wind jacket out there…" And what is 'best' ? OK, the former version had a higher CFM, but a CFM of 53 may be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too high for you and a CFM of e.g. 5 may be perfect for you.:-)

[Jerry Adams]

Pertex Shield is pretty waterproof and breathable. 1.8 oz/yd2. $17 per yard at thru-hiker. No need for "exotic" breathable cuben

[Ian]

Which brings us back to "Richard provides good data, it's up to us to determine the significance of the data." Admittedly I've yet to try Pertex but I'm concerned about wearing it in a good ol' fashioned PNW multi day rain storm. Perhaps I should taunt the rain gods as we sure could use a good dumping after last year's drought.

[Anonymous]

"Admittedly I've yet to try Pertex but I'm concerned about wearing it in a good ol' fashioned PNW multi day rain storm." +1 I'd definitely think at least twice about that one. "Perhaps I should taunt the rain gods as we sure could use a good dumping after last year's drought." Be careful what you ask for. Taunts and prayers can be answered at inopportune times. ;0)

[Ian]

"Be careful what you ask for. Taunts and prayers can be answered at inopportune times. ;0)" Yup. Rainier NP is still a mess from the flooding a few years back. I guess what I really need to do is figure out a way to taunt the snow gods, as that's what we really need.

[Anonymous]

Kicking it off… Hey you Abominable Snowman, your Mama was a snowblower! :P Skaldi, a "goddess" my arse, more like a giant skank. (that's all i got sadly)

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