Should I buy a Zpac Challenger rain jacket?

I've no experience with the fabric but there are some reviews here that are worth searching for and reading. It's been a while since I've read up on it but the reported performance was a bit underwhelming.

I might repeat myself but I would advice the Rab Flashpoint. About the same weight and in my experience super-breathable. It has no pit zips, though.

You could check out the Sierra Designs Cagoule

If you can get over it being a pullover and the "interesting" tornado closure system, the Montane Spektr Smock is a nice 3-layer eVent jacket for a nice price (~$120) if you wait for a Sierra Trading Post coupon. I have an XL (usually wear a L) and it fits snug over my baselayer and midlayer. 8.78oz for XL.

The current one with the Flashpoint fabric as it changes to Pertex Shield + from spring '16.

So, that would be comparable to a minimus jacket? Does it mean pertex shield+ is better than flashpoint, or what is the philospophy behind the change of fabric?

I certainly wouldn't spend that much on that jacket. Here is why: In the summer on a very, very wet trip, we were ALL wet inside due to our own sweat and that included the guy with the Challenger Jacket. I would keep your Luke's Ultralight jacket and just be content that every rain jacket will eventually make you feel clammy nevermind the fabric and nevermind the price tag.

Based on breathability figures I have seen, its likely to be much more comfortable than your sil rain jacket. You'll likely be quite a bit more comfortable when walking in the rain with the Challenger jacket. You will likely be less comfortable when walking without rain because the Challenger doesn't breathe as well as the Houdini.

Breathability is a marketing ploy. The reality is that if you are moving, you will overwhelm any so called 'breathable' fabric quickly and your $400 jacket is no better than a garbage bag with pit zips.

Ok that exactly what I needed to hear. I will keep what I have and be happy with the $300 in my bank.

Well true, and not completely. Although breathability is greatly diminished when being wet out but even then I still find it more comfortable then e.g. a silnylon jacket.

I used the Challenger jacket on the PCT this year (the cuben/eVent one). I think it just confirms the whole waterproof breathable thing is a myth, and in my opinion, the greatest marketing scam in the outdoor industry. It wets out pretty fast.

eVent is good stuff, but don't expect miracles. The biggest gain in waterproof breathable rain jackets is having good ventilation features as ALL waterproof fabrics can become overwhelmed when you are working hard. Pit zips or the like are mandatory, IMHO. No waterproof rain jacket will be as comfortable or breathable as your windshirt, which is the whole point of windshirts in the first place. Is it worth $300 over what you have already? I would wait until your existing jacket is ready for replacement and see what whiz-bang option is available at that point. 2.2oz is a couple sips of water.

The current "ultimate" in breathablity for warmer wet conditions is a poncho with some or all WPB fabric and using a fishnet baselayer. The current "ultimate" in breathablity for cooler/colder, wet conditions is a Paramo or Furtech like system, but with a separated "pump liner-directional" fleece and windjacket (make sure the windjacket has enough initial HH though–i ran into some problems with using a windjacket that didn't). This system is far more flexible/adaptable than both official Paramo and traditional WPB jackets/systems. Ironically, these can be made or modded for relatively cheap, and blow all the most expensive jackets out of the water as far as breathablity while still competitive with most, weight wise. I have experience with both of the above systems, though not extensive experience. I can understand why some people don't like ponchos, but they can be modded to perform better.

Ok you guys talked me out of buying it but I going to throw something out on the table here. I now have decided to get a winter shell for skiing, boarding, hiking and all round winter play. If I throw that in the mix with replacing the silnylon rain shell and the windbreaker for a trifecta would it then make sense to buy the Challenger Jacket?

I think you may want something more durable than eVent. I have used the fabric extensively from bivvies to clothing. it does not like abrasive surfaces and my experience is that snow certainly can be (especially if you are falling hard from winter play). Cuben is not durable at all in those types of activities (my experience). So heresy of all heresies, I would look at a 3 layer jacket, probably Gortex Pro with huge pit zips and awesome hood. On sale, of course. ; )

I would have to agree with Mr. Dave. Cheers

I'm with Sam and Dave…Not going to discuss "breathability" but if you want a durable waterproof jacket then 3L Gortex Pro is the way to go. I survived a very wet week in mine, and almost felt like I was in a suit of armor. Also, I would only wear this jacket when the temps are below 50.

Thanks for the help guys.

you need to ask yourself if this will be – a "just in case" rain jacket for the occasional rainy spots … in which case an UL rain jacket will do – an all day PNW style rain and drizzle day where there may be no sun for a week … youll want something more durable and "breathable" (or with better ventilation) for that regardless of what you pick make sure it has a STELLAR WARRANTY … as the delamination, soaking through/leaking or other failures are quite common to rain jackets of any brand …. even the "best" brands have issues, the key is in how they deal with em companies like OR, EB, MEC all have no questions asked warranties, as do certain retailers … with goretex they have an additional warranty on any of their authorized goods as well ;)

I completely agree with Dave. I hiked the PCT with a $20 Frogg Togg jacket and did just fine. My philosophy in hiking in the wet is not to stay completely dry, that's impossible, what I want, is to stay warm. To me, a rain jacket is much the same as a wet suit is to a scuba diver, they don't necessarily keep you dry, they help keep you warm. If I get to warm I take a layer off or I slow down. If I start getting cold, I either speed up or put a layer on. My main goal is to wear only enough clothing to keep warm while hiking and nothing more. This is so I can keep something in my pack dry, to sleep in that night.

The drier you stay, the warmer and more comfortable you'll be. Water is fairly conductive. Sweat is water that cools fairly rapidly, rain is water. This is why breathablity, rather air permeability, is very important. This is why traditional, mainstream WPB clothing so lacks. This is why i have put so much time and thought into alternatives. But, you have to think outside the boxes and mainstream paradigms as well as not care at all about fashion/image. The closer you get to that ideal range of around 35 CFM, that Richard Nisley talks about, the more comfortable you will be because you're allowing the maximum amount of moisture out, while still being protected from the wind and elements. No one is even close to really being comfortable, slogging up a steep or even moderate incline in 65 or even 50 degree weather, with a baselayer and a 3 layer shell that has maximum about .5 CFM. Besides the severe lack of air permeability, no one ever talks about the following. With 3 layers of material, even though fairly sandwiched together, you get increased insulation. A semi-porous membrane in between two layers of relatively low breathable material, will trap/still a certain amount of air and thus insulate, as compared to two layers of much more breathable material, or a 3 layer WPB which has huge vented areas (poncho). While very few people even here talk about it, there are indeed much more comfortable alternatives to the above, both for warmer wet weather and colder wet weather.

Core Backpacking Clothing || Items 10 & 11: Rain Jacket & Rain Pants Bedrock & Paradox Skurka’s Core 13 On hiking in winter A tale of two windshirts (thoughts on winter clothes) 30s and raining: some suggestions

Thanks for those links^^^^^