- Aug 19, 2005 at 6:58 pm #1340587John ChanMember
Good point about the tapeworm relatives made. For lake water you can get the parasite by eating fish as well (since they are part of the life cycle).
However, having said that… if you cook your food adequately the chances are minimized and most North American flukes, should the worst happen and you play host there are drugs that kill the parasite quite readily.
Hate to come down with a case of lung fluke in the Orient though!Aug 19, 2005 at 8:02 pm #1340591Patti BinderBPL Member
@quiltbinderLocale: Southwestern Indiana
Yogurt experiment: On Day #1 I mixed a starter culture into 2, 8 oz ziplock brand bowls with reconstituted powdered milk using approx 5 Tbsp (5 rounded tsp) instead of 4 Tbsp milk powder for each cup. I set them out (covered with a towel) on my covered shaded back porch. The high temps for the 1st 3 days were 79.2°F, 82.1°F, & 86.8°F. Each day the yogurt was still a thin liq 11 to 13 hrs later in the p.m. My plan was that they would be set & I’d bring them inside at night, one at room temp(71°F) & the other in a fridge (45°F). Since they hadn’t set, I left them out overnight & each morning they were thickened about like melting jello, a thick but not firm set. Each a.m. I poured off ½ (4oz) of each for my breakfast and added another 3 rounded tsp powdered milk to each and water to make 8 oz. The somewhat thinner than normal yogurt, mixed with milk and sweetener was very good on my morning cereal.
Today the Tmax was higher (97.2°F) and I was hoping for a firm set that I could bring in at night. But, one was contaminated i.e.1) a little mold on the inside lid and top of yogurt and 2) a gas forming organism (bubbles in the curdled yogurt). Down the drain! The other is thick but not firm and there is some whey separation. I put it in the fridge & am still uncertain whether it is usable.
So, yogurt for three days: not bad. Of course conditions are cleaner than they would be on the trail. And my cultures sat still all day.
Temps are supposed to be 93° and 89° for the next 2 days. I might try again. I think I’ll use 2 bowls again, but shake one occasionally, to see if that completely destroys it or if I end up with a different product, like curds and whey maybe.
My conclusion so far is that yogurt might be doable for a few days, for someone just out to enjoy an easy time (yeah, in horribly hot weather, right!) This is probably not for anyone out mainly for the miles.
The Mad Scientist ; )Aug 20, 2005 at 12:02 am #1340596paul johnsonMember
@pjLocale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Great report. Thanks for the info. Ok, Bold One,…
You should be able to taste the one you think is bad (not the gaseous one) with no ill effects other than taste. Yrs ago, as part of that learning experience in Food&Dairy Microbio., we were taught “organoleptic” analysis, i.e. appearance, odor, taste. We needed to be able to determine what spoiled the milk by taste, odor, appearance. So,…we had to taste milk spoiled with var. bugs. The worst tasting (and smelling), the hands down winner, was Streptococcus fecalis (lots of indol & scatol production from these buggers). Some others were pretty bad tasting also. Just put a drop on your tongue. Spit, rinse out well, then squish & gargle with some Listerine – the strong stuff. I skipped the rinse & went straight to the squish & gargle. Real-life F&D Microbiologists do this all the time (or at least used to. We loose more F&D Microbiologists that way…just kiddin’). Don’t gulp a bunch or swallow even though these bugs are not generally considered as human pathogens. They are in large numbers, since they spoiled the milk, and there might be a small possibility of a mild sore throat or intestinal discomfort. However, having said that, no one in class ever had any problems whatsoever. Many Streps can spoil milk, but none of them are any serotype of Streptococcus pyogenes – the human pathogen causing Strep throat. Enjoy!!!
Anyone who is immuno- surpressed/compromised should consult their physician before attempting organoleptic analysis – just a standard disclaimer i read somewhere more recently. may be an unecessary warning, but perhaps makes good sense none-the-less.Aug 20, 2005 at 12:18 am #1340597paul johnsonMember
@pjLocale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Wasn’t thinking so much about cooking – most people know that foods obtained in the wild should be well washed (plants, no…not for pesticides, they’re wild, washed for other stuff/reasons), cleaned, cooked (animals).
I was just thinking of the drinking water due to the presence of snails. not sure if fluke metacercaria (a stage in the fluke’s life cycle) are as resistant to chems & UV-C as tapeworm eggs are.
You’re right, Clonorchis sinensis is transmitted via eating uncooked fish. Other flukes, e.g. Fasciola hepatica, can be acquired from the water. I didn’t want to get too detailed in my first post. I think that sometimes i give too much detail.Aug 20, 2005 at 8:35 am #1340616Scott AshdownMember
@waterloggedwelliesLocale: United Kingdom
Thanks Patti for the update on the yogurt experiment. Also, Johns input re the snails and the idea of harvesting them, i.e. setting them up for eating on your return trip. With John and Patti combined I can see succulent fresh snails served in a creamy yougurt based curry sauce or similar. Yummy! Taking Johns idea further re setting food aside for a return trip, whats the view re planting a small crop to grow at the side of the trail for the possibility of eating say on a return trip during the relevent harvesting season. I’m sure there are crops that could grow unnattended. I wouldn’t suggest banking on the fact that the food wood be there on your return trip but the possibilitiy that you might get some fresh food on a return trip would be a bonus. Apart from the flowers in my garden, i’ve never grown anything to eat so I wouldn’t now what crop to suggest as a good possibility. There is also the consideration of introducing a particular plant into an area and the effects that might have as well as any local laws re this. A discussion point only but the idea of being out on a hike and then uprooting a carrot or similar to add to my meal seems to appeal. (I normally get this thought as i’m rehydrating my dried vegetables!!!!)Aug 21, 2005 at 9:24 am #1340658John ChanMember
I don’t think its a very good idea unless the species you are going to plant is indigenous to the area. In Ontario provincial parks there are strict rules and regulations forbidding the introduction of foreign species into fragile ecosystems. The effects of Zebra mussels on the ecosystems of the Great Lakes is bad enough.
Back when I was growing up in Northern Ontario the rules were alot more lax and we use to grow watercress down by the local creek and get 2 large harvests every season.
PS: In addition to fresh-water snails there are usually other edible molluscs in the lakes such as clams. These critters usually occupy sandy bottoms in water at least 5 ft deep and its not worth it to wade out for them. Unlike the snails that taste suprisingly like the one’s you get at the fish-monger fresh-water clams have little in common with little-necks. Doesn’t matter how long you clean them… chewy foot, bitter (bile-like) taste from the stomach really turns off the epicurean in most H. sapiens.Aug 24, 2005 at 11:32 am #1340798cat morrisMember
We have been picking & eating boletes fairly steadily for 6 weeks now during rainy season. There are certain edible mushrooms that once you have familiarized yourself with them & know their habitat in particular areas, it’s very safe. There are mushroom classes you can attend with experts to instruct. Wild mushrooms are an incredible delicacy!Aug 26, 2005 at 7:16 am #1340906Rob McraeMember
@emptymanLocale: the other, big Ontario
Just noticed this thread- I have sprouted food on the trail = mostly for nutritional purposes. Mung is easy if kept cool and dark. Yes it needs lots of rinces. Lentils are better protein and after 48 hours you can basically eat them raw, which is a real treat. also, I have taken quinoa, and let it soak in my pack overnight, drained it and left it for the day. That night, they require very little cooking. I religiously take a breakfast mix of nuts and seeds and dried fruit and soak these overnight in my hanging bear bag- this make a ready breakfast that is much, much easier to digest than dried nuts or grains, plus it has the benefit of having its enzymes activated. I am surprised more persons do not get into this sprouting/soaking stuff in the back country… it just makes sense. We can let time do our cooking for us (ie: breaking down the food for digestion) instead of heat. also, after two days, we can be sorely missing out on enzymes in our camping diet that are essential to vital body functions. Raw food is both efficient, tasty, nutritious, and tasty. We should also all get better acquainted with wild foods- but I have found them hard to identify, even with pictures from a book. Maybe there are real life courses in this somewhere?
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