Suggestion on new insulation jacket

Hey Scott, Check out the different outdoor retail websites such as backcountry.com, moosejaw.com and campsaver.com. They are always having sales along with having discout outlets. With these websites you can narrow your searches using different keywords such as your price range, type of garment, insulation type and weight. This helps tremendously to locate suitable garments. I think you should look into coats that have at LEAST 100 g/m^2 of synthetic insulation such as primaloft. Anything more than 200 g/m^2 would be too heavy and bulky and a down jacket would be better. Something in that weight of insulation should do you well for the temp range. I also think a MontBell Alpine Light down jacket would be right up your alley. It's not DWR down but the shell has a quality DWR from what I hear. It's a highly recommended coat. Has around 4oz of down so it should be warm enough. With your layers you should be set. Hope this can get you started Sam

Hi Scott, Sam brings up good points. If you live in a humid/wet environment, down might not be your best option. Even down with water repellent treatments will wet out at some point. And as Sam suggested, don't get anything with a greater than 200g per square meter of fabric weight. It will indeed be bulky. As for places to look online, I would also suggest Sierra Trading Post. If the new jacket is a "nice to have" rather than a "must have" for the time being, sign up for STP's mailing list and you'll see that they run additional discounts on top of their already pretty decent prices. Plus you'll find top brands like Haglofs, Mammut, Mountain Hardwear and other top brands. Eric

Thanks for the input guys. in regard to the weight of the synthetic fabric. Quite a few of the jackets I am looking at are around the 60 gram weight. As part of a layering system is this heavy enough or do you feel like the 100 is required? Example the nano puff and nano air are equivalent of 60 gram. I plan to layer merino wool base layer, the ecolator, some jacket, then the houdini as sort of a shell. I do have a super Mica which I would bring if there was plans for rain.

If you live in a relatively dry area, down is definitely the way to go. You mentioned you would carry a rain jacket if the report called for rain so I suspect you live in a drier area. If you are in a very humid area, as I am, I still prefer down. Below freezing, there is no moisture to affect the down. The hardest conditions cold rain but not quite freezing. You'll be mostly in your shelter then but can use your rain jacket when you're not. To me, a synthetic jacket is not better and generally not as warm.

You'll freeze in a 60g jacket at 20f at rest.

In wet weather I usually have a fleece that goes on/off if I get cold (like downhill vs uphill). When I set up camp, I take off all my wet clothes and put on the down jacket. It doesn't get wet because I'm in my shelter. I can walk around with my rain jacket over and keep it dry. It's not like I'm hiking in it wearing my rain jacket were perspiration can build up in the down jacket. Is it possible for it to be so humid that your down jacket can suck up moisture from the air and lose significant loft?

I really like my NanoPuff Pullover, but it gets a bit chilly around 35f layered with a cap 4 zip neck, Houdini and rain shell. That's with cap 4 tights and Houdini wind pants plus a fleece hat. For your temp range I would be looking at the MicroPuff jacket (to stay with the Patagonia theme. I love em :)) The 60 g stuff is "summer weight" insulation. The 100g is better for shoulder season/winter. And yes, if it's humid enough, down will soak up the moisture from the air and slowly lose loft. Seen it first hand myself. But remember, loft is NOT everything, and slightly damp down is still warmer per weight than synthetic. In saying that, I still prefer to incorporate synthetic insulation into my clothing system when using my 20f down quilt. Adds some security, whether real or not.

While I like down I have had a few bad experiences with my down coat so that is the reason I prefer synthetic. Mainly it is humidity issues and the JCP has no DWR. I have not had as much issues with my EE down quilt but it has DWR and is usually packed in a dry bag until I need it. I understand I am taking a weight and size hit on them. I will see what I can find that is weighed around 100 grams. I love my Terramar grid fleece and that keeps my warm for the most part and layered well with the JCP. I rarely wear anything other than a baselayer with a houdini or rain jacket depending on if I need it while moving. I have too much fat to generate heat. But once I hit camp I can get cool quick.

Scott, you're asking at least two questions which to a large extent contradict each other. Synthetic insulation will solve your ambient humidity problem. DWR down will also, to a lesser extent, but unless you find something on sale you aren't getting good DWR down for 150 bucks. Sierra Designs has a few sizes of their DriDown Hoody on sale at the moment, which would be a good option for you: http://sierradesigns.com/product/dridown-hoody For genuine warmth at rest for extended periods around 20F 100 grams/meter of insulation is a minimum. Issue is warmer than that you're getting into belay coat territory and things get expensive, heavy, and bulky. Montbell's Thermawrap Pro is 80 grams for 15 ounces and 170 bucks MSRP. It will be short of warmth for most folks at 20F, but pretty good around freezing. In short, if you want to prioritize humidity control get a synthetic parka, if you want warmth below freezing get a better down coat.

Last winter I bought this Eddie Bauer FA Downlight Stormdown parka as something of a proof-of-concept to experience for myself whether DWR-treated down had any merit. I used it a few times in some humid/cold conditions (once, upper 20’s with freezing rain… close to worst possible scenario) and am convinced it held up much better than non-treated down would have. I intentionally abused it a couple of times by stuffing it when it was pretty damp and it still lofted quite well and also dried a lot more quickly than I expected. The specs rate it as 35deg for non-active, but combined with other layers (base, fleece, shell) I used it quite a few times down around 0deg with no problems. Normally I wear a medium, but I got it in large in order to easily accommodate extra layers. edit the gosh-darn link again :^(

So most folks are comfortable with the treated down? I would be will in to try it I guess. lighter than the synthetic. I found a MH ghost whisper in my size for 150. Doesn't have the hood like the sierra designs though but I did not plan on a hood anyway. Seems like a deal on last year's model.

Price could be tricky but I went with a very light Berghaus synthetic jacket which can be beefed up in a cold camp with a Borah gear down vest. I'd shop the sales for down jackets – seem to be a lot you can get for low prices on places like 6pm.com and the outlets of the big outdoor gear online sellers.

DWR down mitigates humidity issues to a certain extent, but not nearly as well as synthetic. DWR down will still eventually loose loft when it comes into contact with internal or external humidity, but will do so a bit slower and dry out faster.

http://www.rei.com/product/883343/rei-stratocloud-jacket-womens Both the PrimaLoft® fibers and the down are treated for water repellency, so the blended fill retains 94% of its warmth when wet $179.00

Well you folks talked me into the down. Pulled the trigger on the Ghost Whisperer at 150 bucks. Funky color but the trees don't care. Website says 7oz so I figure 8 or so for an XL. That is pretty light.