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Metatarsalgia and the Jordan River Pathway


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Home Forums Campfire Member Trip Reports Metatarsalgia and the Jordan River Pathway

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
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  • #1333155
    Peter Treiber
    BPL Member

    @peterbt

    Locale: A^2

    I was walking the dog in the spring when the ball of my foot started to burn; by the end of the walk I was hobbling. Took a break for a week and tried again: same thing. Talked to the docs, and x-ray, ultrasound, and MRI said the same thing: nothing. Bought some wide-toe-box shoes and didn't do much for most of the year. I was pretty mopey — last few years I'd grown to love walking and running. Started to get severe symptoms in the morning. Maybe muscles tightening overnight? Some podiatrists attribute a good deal of foot problems to calf tightness. I started stretching and resuming lunchtime walks and 5k runs. No debilitating symptoms… Figured it was time to try a hike. Tried stretching and ibuprofen, and my foot still got sore after a couple hours, but not enough to be a show-stopper. Anyway, not sure what the next step is, but it was great to get back to the trail that started it all for me — the Jordan River Pathway. Initial descent.initial descent Blazes of excitement!exclamation Got to the end of a 45-minute detour and I realized it bypassed one of my favorite stretches. What should I do?detour Heading back to the bridge…field Love that scene. Bridge has been out two years, I guess.bridge Ominous lichen.lichen The usual splendor.splendor Breakfast of Runners-Up!breakfast river Color is delayed this year in Michigan.landslide river2 Final view of the valley.deadman Devil: You need gas — get a cup of coffee at the station! Angel: Make yourself a pour-over for the road!coffee

    #2230570
    Dean L
    Spectator

    @aldoleopold

    Locale: Great Lakes

    Nice pics of a great area. As for the ominous lichen, the optimist in me sees the head of a friendly airedale terrier.:) Good that you are "back on your feet". As for your condition, did the doctors ever consider gout and take a uric acid level?

    #2230572
    Mike Bozman
    Spectator

    @myarmisonfire

    Locale: BC

    About your feet… Do you have precription orthotics that have a metatarsal bump in them? I used to suffer the same as you and talking to a podiatrist got it all sorted out in a couple of days.

    #2230583
    Peter Treiber
    BPL Member

    @peterbt

    Locale: A^2

    Dean, that *is* optimistic! :) One of the doctors asked about alcohol consumption, which I presume had to do with gout, but didn't explore it further. A couple of the guys at work have had it and said that it is a good deal more excruciating than what I've got. Have you had it? Mike, no, I don't have a prescription orthotic. A sports doc prescribed a carbon fiber orthotic to keep the foot still, but it's way too obnoxious. I've been meaning to try metatarsal pads. Really I need to find a good podiatrist… Did your problem go away eventually or do you still use the orthotic?

    #2230596
    d k
    BPL Member

    @dkramalc

    I had metatarsalgia for several months; my podiatrist told me to use green Superfeet insoles, which seemed to help, but I went on to develop plantar fasciitis. So the tight calf muscles may have been a cause of both for me. Keep stretching those!

    #2230597
    Dean L
    Spectator

    @aldoleopold

    Locale: Great Lakes

    I have had it, off and on for almost 25 years. Sometimes it is just annoying, sometimes fairly painful and limp producing, and with a full blown attack like someone slowly driving a red hot lag bolt into my foot while hitting it with a hammer every 5th turn. I'm on meds for it and while it only bothers me sometimes these days, I do have permanent arthritic-like joint damage. Your mornings pain reference was a red flag, I almost always woke up with an attack rather than developing it during the day.

    #2230774
    Mike Bozman
    Spectator

    @myarmisonfire

    Locale: BC

    Peter, no the problem didn't go away and I wear an orthotic in most all of my footwear all the time but the orthotic has fixed the symptoms from the problem. I know that there is a strong presence of people on BPL who always claim that orthotics are not going to be the solution to any foot problem but I beg to differ. The root cause of my pain in the metatarsal area is from nearly severing my big toe when I was a child. No strengthening of the foot will fix that! So maybe it will 'fix' whatever your ailment may be. Maybe it won't. A real podiatrist will be able to sort you out and most likely very quickly. You may also prevent making the damage permanent and/or worse.

    #2231094
    Ethan A.
    BPL Member

    @mountainwalker

    Locale: SF Bay Area & New England

    I have some very helpful info to share on this after suffering through my own journey with it for about a year and finding good solutions. I got absolutely terrible and damaging advice from two horrible podiatrists, and good helpful advice from a good one. Have to run now but will share shortly. Re podiatrists (and no offense to any podiatrists on the site), they require shockingly little training on foot mechanics and many aren't active folks so it's most important to do your own research and listen to your body – what works, what doesn't. Also many push unnecessary custom orthotics because they earn a lot from them. That said, there are those who may benefit from them depending on their issues. I got rid of mine and just focused on buying the right kind of shoes that worked great for me.

    #2231461
    Tipi Walter
    BPL Member

    @tipiwalter

    I like this shot the best as it shows a neato creek. Where I backpack such a creek is often the actual trail. And such a creek often has wonderful campsites off to the side. creek

    #2232646
    Tim Zen
    Spectator

    @asdzxc57

    Locale: MI

    Nice pictures of the JRP. This is a great time to be out. Have you tried a foam roller for your calves?

    #2234922
    Shawn McDonald
    BPL Member

    @shawnm

    Locale: Michigan

    Great fall photos of the JRP. Did you go over that bridge or find another way in that same area to continue on the trail? I'm not a fan of that detour.

    #2234997
    Peter Treiber
    BPL Member

    @peterbt

    Locale: A^2

    Thanks, Shawn! After enduring the detour (southbound) I headed back to the bridge for a snapshot, but resumed the southbound trek from there. Truly a tragedy! To whom do I need to write a check to get that bridge fixed? Thanks, Tim! I bought a foam roller a while back for my lower back but haven't tried it on my calf. I'll see if I can find it — thanks for the tip! Thanks, Tipi! A lot of nice river crossings on this trip… E J, feel free to reveal your solution. I bought some wide-toed shoes for hiking and running, but I'm curious to hear what other properties are helpful… Mike, I have an appointment with a proper podiatrist on 11 Nov. If an orthotic will let me run and hike, I'm all for it! Dean, I'm sorry to hear about your condition. Mornings are definitely the worst for me, and if I've been sitting for a good while. Anyway, hopefully we can commiserate over a beer sometime soon… d k, I'll keep stretching my calf! It definitely seems tight, and the morning symptoms seem to indicate an issue there…

    #2235073
    Shawn McDonald
    BPL Member

    @shawnm

    Locale: Michigan

    Peter, now you're talking! I would gladly contribute to that project in order to cross the bridge. It's long overdue. I'll reach out to both the DNR in Gaylord and the Grand Traverse Hiking Club who does trail maintenance in that section for information. I can't imagine I'll be the only hiker who's contacted either organization about the bridge problem.

    #2238660
    Ethan A.
    BPL Member

    @mountainwalker

    Locale: SF Bay Area & New England

    Peter, Hope you are feeling better. I have a lot to share on this after a yearlong journey with it which ended well, but here are a few things that I hope you'll find helpful. I came full circle to realize that in my case the metatarsalgia was either solely or primarily caused by running shoes without enough forefoot room, partly because your feet change and tend to elongate/spread a bit with time (the shoes that worked for me a year ago no longer worked). That was my first question to the podiatrist, and I brought my running shoes and took out my insoles to stand on them and note that I thought they might be too narrow, and my concern was totally ignored. Only unnecessary solutions that cost $ – orthotics, metatarsal pad, custom orthotics, were thrown at me. Typical problem in Western US medicine. First, as has already been pointed out, a lot of foot problems can originate or be related to tight calf muscles. In addition to stretching your calves, I'd highly recommend rolling them with either body weight over a foam roller (the harder the foam the better for you, though it may feel challenging at first) or with a roller stick such as this travel-size one: http://amzn.to/1N9dyVb A friend who was staying with us while qualifying for the US Olympic Team in a nearby race showed it to us and swore by it, and my wife and I find it extremely helpful. It also helps you feel when you have a knot in your muscles and then lets you roll it out. Most of us sit too much leading to tight calves, hamstrings and hip muscles, so start with the calves. Second, a recent New York Times article I was going to post separately in the Technique Forum pointed out that lower leg muscles atrophy faster than upper leg and other muscles, leading to runners and hikers having a stiffer more injury-prone gait as they age. These exercises were recommended, and these are the exercises I did religiously in physiotherapy: http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00667 Third, Roger Caffin is right about this – shoes, shoes, shoes. Make sure your forefoot has enough room. I personally find that these qualities really help: -Roomy enough toe box and forefoot -Flat insole without an artificially high arch, which may not even hit your arch in the right place -Low drop (4mm) – 4mm works great for trail running shoes for hiking as well as road shoes, though I've never tried zero drop yet. I can immediately feel when I'm in shoes with a higher drop and I much prefer the lower drop. -Good padding – no, I don't think you need monster Hoka padding and I think the extra height may be biomechanically problematic, but make sure you have some good padding in the sole and insole. Something that molds to your foot over time and shields you a bit from the trail. -Rock plate in the forefoot – protects your metatarsals from bruising on the trail from rocks and roots. Remember that fat pads on the bottom of the feet atrophy with age. Padding helps. -I personally find a shoe that has a sole that's a bit torsionally rigid feels much better and more protective than a shoe that is floppy. With shoes that are too soft and with no rock plate, I feel foot fatigue that I would otherwise never feel. -Fourth, be very careful about accepting anything to put inside your shoes that will place more point pressure on parts of your foot, like a metatarsal pad. I was prescribed a metatarsal pad, which was also several sizes too large for me, incidentally during a trip to one of the BPL Point Reyes GGG's, and it wrecked my foot. Tore it right out as soon as I got back. I'm very suspicious of orthotics, and personally I found they weren't useful and changed biomechanics in a bad way, and chucked them as soon as I focused on shoes. -Fifth, be careful to deal with any problems quickly and keep pain and inflammation under control. My cousin who is a physician likes to say, when the body is in pain it's hard for you to heal. Also pain can get "burned in" to the central nervous system so that you continue to feel pain even though the original source of the pain might not be there or be as bad as it was. Further if your foot pain keeps you awake on a regular basis, lower quality sleep can increase pain. I put almost 2400 hiking and trail running miles on a pair of Saucony Xodus 3.0 before finally destroying any remaining padding by using them to move heavy furniture and boxes. And by that time I'd worn down the lugs quite a bit, though the tread lasted a shockingly long time (and I'm 170-175lbs). Note that many of these miles were on forest soil/leaves/gravel and some rock, not mostly rock. Most durable and comfortable trail runner I ever tried. I used to wear New Balance, Montrail, Salomon and Vasque shoes. You are getting fantastic durability, grip, padding and forefoot room for the weight. Some trail shoes with generous forefoot I checked out from Pearl Izumi and Nike would have never lasted this long in terms of structural integrity, tread and padding. Also the Xodus is more durable and better padded/protected than the Saucony Peregrine. Currently using the Saucony Xodus 6.0. My only gripe is that they gave into fashion and made the shape of the front of the shoe a little pointier than the 3.0, but I have the same amount of room for my forefoot. Just size up – I find with about an 11 1/4 foot size I need the 12.5. My wife has to size up similarly. Neither one of us has a wide foot. I have no relationship to Saucony. I've heard that their shoes especially trail shoes don't get as much press as some other shoes because the parent company has other shoe brands and doesn't spend much on their Saucony advertising. Hope this helps.

    #3393225
    Peter Treiber
    BPL Member

    @peterbt

    Locale: A^2

    Thanks so much for your in-depth story, Ethan!  Sorry for the extremely delayed response.  The first thing I looked into when my symptoms started was wide-toed shoes.  While that helps some, the one thing I’ve found that reliably prevents soreness on runs or long walks is an insole a runner friend recommended for me.  It does have an integrated metatarsal pad and other support features.  Like you, I don’t like like the idea of shifting the impact to a different part of my foot and possibly causing secondary injuries, but for now I’m taking my chances in exchange for being able to get a 5k in here and there.  I have been stretching my calves (I have to believe the sharp pain on my first steps in the morning has to do with tight calves), but I’ve been lazy about foot strengthening exercises.  The next step for me is to incorporate those into my daily routine.  Anyway, I appreciate all the recommendations!  I’ll definitely check out the Xodus when it’s time for a new pair (I’m currently hiking in Altra Lone Peaks and running in Altra Instinct (or some such)).

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