HMG 150D Longevity

The bottom of every 50d HMG pack with stays uses 150d on the bottom, I believe. How does that look?

If you can afford it, I'd go with the Dyneema. I've found that bouncing buses do terrible things to cuben packs…

I can't speak for the durability of Dyneema as I have not used it, but can say that the durability of the 150D is a bit disappointing. I love this pack. For its weight it carries like a dream on me. But it wears, scars and holes easily. Mine has seen about 50 days of backcountry, boreal forest, northern Canada use. Its bottom is worn through in places and holes (rips, punctures) have appeared in the body. It is easy to repair, cuben or tenacious tape both work very well. I expected a longer life when I bought it. I am bit resigned to the fact now that these packs are merely long term disposable items. They are very effective pieces of gear achieving a lot of what I need in a package, but lacks durability. I have 2 of them, and a friend has one. Same experience with all. Oh, and with the seams carefully sealed, it still takes on a lot of water if an accidental immersion occurs. Derrick

If you got 4k miles out of the 50d you are doing really well. You got your money's worth As that's a lot of walking. The Dyneema is by far the most durable pack material but overkill for most users (not by someone that is walking 4k miles though.) Derrick – northern Canada/Alaska use is hard on packs with all the black spruce, alder, dwarf birch, and willow. I can see how a pack would have a short life there. I also think a pack is hard to make "waterproof" as it gets a lot of abuse, the seams get a lot of abuse and stretching, and there are just so many entry points ( around hipbelts, shoulder staps, stays, straps, etc) If you are unhappy you may look at a Seek Outside Unaweep in X42 or X51. At least if the pack wore out you could replace just the pack bag.

good insight here. my windrider is pretty destroyed and has been patched just about everywhere… stays have popped out the bottom, etc. still a great pack and impressed it lasted so long.

Yes 4K miles is a lot of going on a 50d pack and it certainly is getting your money's worth. I should note that the seams of my Porter have held up very well – no sign of thread hole expansion anywhere. The 50 days of use I reference equal less than 1K miles, but have carried 70 plus lbs for most of it. Its the face surfaces of the fabric that is failing, not the seams. @Bradford – Funny you should mentioned Seek Outside, I was on the phone with them yesterday preparing to order an Evolution frame. I am presently planning a backcountrywhitewater trip from Nain across Labrador by foot and then down the George River by packraft to Ungava Bay. Still in the planning stages but given the distances and 4 to 5 week duration it will be hard to keep pack weight under 80lbs. I am surprised that my search for light but more durable and waterproof gear has led me back to an external suspension frame, but after looking at the ULA Epic and NRS Paragon, and deciding to go with a more waterproof bag (likely SeatonSummit Big River) the Evolution seems to make the most sense. Derrick

Derrick- not to derail the thread but that sounds like an epic trip. I hope you post a TR and Pics. I think you will like the frame and am interested to see what you think about it at those loads. I used a Unaweep in X21rc for 11 days in Alaska but my heaviest weight was 40lbs even when carrying some others gear. I was very happy but would want a tougher fabric than the x21 if I was going to be in that brush all the time. The fabric preformed great for the time I was there but I could see that kind of brush would shred any lightweight material with any kind of prolonged use.

X33 and above seem to be the choice for up there most of the time. I have not heard / seen any problems with any of the heavier fabrics and I know the lighter X21 / VX21 ones get used sometimes as well. X33 is a 330D Cordura face X42 Olive I think is really nicely balanced fabric that isn't overly heavy X51 is very robust , 500 / 1000 D Cordura

Thanks Kevin. I prefer the X33 but it is only available in camo which is not really my thing. I understand why HMG are moving away from 150D cuben hybrid, but wonder why they are moving to Dyneema versus these waterproof Xpac fabrics. How is it, if it indeed is, superior to Xpac? Derrick

Full Dyneema (or Specta) would be vastly superior to just about any fabric in existence when it comes to cut and abrasion resistance. It is however not waterproof unless laminated to a waterproof material. The downside to Full Dyneema is expense. While x-PAC runs ~ $20 yard and hybrid cuben runs $40 yard, full Dyneema has been reported at $100 per yard and it can't be sewn with most sewing machines (breaks needles) or cut with most sheers so it's hard to work with. Also, of minimal concern to us, it can't be dyed (unless your McHale) so it's white. Most Dyneema packs are $700 plus. For someone who uses their pack hard all the time (guide etc) Dyneema makes since. For the rest of us, 210d dyneema grid has a long history and the x PAC fabrics are fantastic. X51 should be durable enough for just about anyone.

Thanks Brad, That is very helpful summary. I replied to your earlier message but it does not appear to have posted. I will do TR if the trip happens and take lots of photos. As the only person on the forum from this part of the world, I suppose I should do more of that. Its a spectacular wonderland for hiking, white water and lake travel. Still very wild. I think I will upload a trip report for one of my earlier expeditions. Thanks Again Derrick