winter stove replacement

Here is an interesting thread on a Cold Weather Heat Exchanger: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=98947&disable_pagination=1

I had an MSR Dragonfly and, though heavy, it simmered better than ANY white gas (petrol) stove I've ever seen. But I sold it to get the MSR Whisperlite Universal multi fuel stove. Not sure that was the right decision… But lately I've used my Trail Designs Sidewinder and Inferno wood burner insert with a 1.5 L. pot in winter (that size for melting snow). It's HOT!

My preferred winter stove is still the Svea 123R, but if you want the fastest snow-melter, I think the MSR XGK is still the hot ticket.

Joe/David/Christian, the link is to the HX strip that I worked on last winter. It works; a simple, no-BS set-up that is not finicky at all. The only thing I am doing differently next winter is switching to a solid .027" strip, with everything else remaining the same. This set-up will work with any canister-mount stove with an open burner… in other words, NOT with a Reactor, Windboiler, etc. It will work fine with the JBs with a more open pot support structure (such as the MiniMo) and with others such as Snow Peak, BRS 3000, Soto… pretty much anything with an open burner. Forget water baths and remote inverted canister arrangements — this totally blows them away. If you PM me with mailing address, I will send you the updated HX strip set-up for evaluation. I am certain you will be very pleased with the results.

I have an XGK, if you're not all that into the whisperlight international I imagine you'll not be all that into an XGK – it's the same again only heavier and beefier. The bulk of my snow/ice melting experience has been with a jetboil sumo (20 days maybe?), I've been happy with it. Haven't tried the heat transfer strip, I've been using a warm bowl of water. (It has one of those cold weather value things, there's a thread/article somewhere around BPL about how these are pretty much marketing gimmicks). At times I'd have liked the wind resistance of MSR's reactor or windboiler. But the lack of an interlocking pot on the reactor, or a neoprene cover is a big negative.

I always used a SVEA 123r for one or two people. I also have the small Midi pump for it that boosts starting and cold weather performance (though I needed to replace the "O" ring a couple times in the pump.) It was the cheapest for the amount of fuel we used out ice fishing. Edited to add that heat exchangers work well if you are in a hurry. However at low heats they do not work that well.

I really like remote Canister stoves for winter, my favourite is the Optimus Vega.

Just ordered the minimo stove and I am going to use it as Bob does. Thanks Bob for sharing this and for hooking me up!! I am really excited and cant wait to test it out and use it this winter. I am praying for plenty of cold, snow and ice like we had last winter here in NY.

I also plan to test and use Bob's heat exchanger design this winter with an Optimus Crux stove.

David, thank you for linking that thread, and Bob, thank YOU for such well-documented development.

Yep, Bob has come up with something quite creative here. Last spring I copied his design, and it looks like it will work beautifully. I've recently found some copper sheeting/flashing of varying thicknesses, and I've been playing with different widths of the strip, the length of the carbon felt insulator, etc. I can now actually look forward to our first sub-zero (*F) cold spell to try things out. I am certain that it will work, my only curiosity is which combination will work best, and perhaps be the lightest and most fiddle-free. Way to go, Bob!

Thanks for the interest, gents! I've gotten a few PMs and will be assembling and sending them out in the next 2-3 weeks. All will include the CCF cozy for the 8oz (~220g) canister size because that is the most useful for winter, what with the expected ~3x fuel consumption when relying upon melted snow for all water. I realize there are 450g canisters available; however, these are really tall and IMO not practical for a canister-mounted burner. At this point I must close the list on the 'evaluation kits' but all the info needed to myog is in the other thread.

@Gary I wish I had access to the Army's cold-weather lab in Natick, MA to do testing. I really enjoy experimenting with sleep, shelter and clothing as well. Looking forward to the results of your experiments, and I will be doing some more tests as well. We got our first shot of autumn this morning with a fresh, cool breeze from the northwest. I actually needed to wear a jacket to stand out on the deck… yessss! :^)

Thanks so much Bob! Can't wait to use it this winter. As I told you, I placed my order for the JB Minimo. This is going to be great!!

Testing outdoors in real weather is more accurate than a controlled lab. Although a room with a set temperature and a fan to make wind in a controlled manner would probably be good enough. But, in the real world, the wind shifts from different directions, maybe more turbulent than what a fan would do,

Joe, I predict great happiness, lol!! :^) This really is the perfect size for solo winter, IMO. I also consider a heat-exchange pot practically mandatory. I've also tested fairly extensively with the Primus Eta 1- and 1.8-liter pots and they are fantastic, although somewhat heavier. (The "1-liter" really can hold 0.9 liter max, and 0.8 liter without boiling over.) The Eta pots' lids are stupid-heavy, so some other solution, myog or otherwise, is in order. However, the 1-liter and the BRS-3000 are a perfect combo.

I love old stoves. Radius 43 kero, simmers very well, Optimus 111 family, heavy. The old MSR FireFly puts the heat out and simmers surprisingly well and will support a larger pot. The old MSR G, GK, X-GK work very well too. Duane

I just picked up a Kovea Spider. I think inverted canister is the way to go for winter. Upright canister stoves won't work well unless you can keep the canister warm. Don't be fooled by "regulated" stoves- even those won't work well below about 25F unless you keep the canister warm. Maybe the heat exchanger is enough? Has it been tested yet? White gas stoves are too messy and finicky for me. Esbit smells bad, turns my pot black, and is too slow and expensive for melting snow. Alcohol apparently doesn't work well when it's below around freezing because it's not volatile enough. Inverted canister stoves are clean, powerful, and convenient, and they work in conditions as cold as I care to be in. In winter conditions it's important for me to have a fast, simple stove otherwise I'll get cold siting around waiting for it or get cold fingers fiddling with it. The Kovea Spider is really nicely built, it's very compact, and it's not too heavy for what it is. The instructions and packaging are all in Korean, which is cool. (I think Google Translate can decode it for me) Alternatively, a hanging stove that you can use in a tent would be cool, if you don't mind cooking in your tent. I think the Reactor has a hanging kit.

Upright – yeah, doesn't work below 25 F. Soto regulated stoves are nice, but they don't push that lower limit. If you use a metal strip or put canister in a shallow water container you can go 10 or 20 F colder. Lots of people do this – well tested. You need to experiment first to find something that works. It's kind of fiddly though. Inverted canister has problems too. It weighs a little more, but Roger's stove is pretty close to upright weight. There is stuff in canisters that can clog the valve if you're in inverted mode. When upright, it stays in the canister – you're just taking vapor out of the canister. You want to be able to take the valve apart to clean it.

Hi, Bob I have some solid .025 copper I plan to use for my Jetboil. What width of strip are you going to use for your new solid copper setup?

Hi, Gary: I will not be able to dial in the exact width until cold weather arrives, but at this point I can say that it will almost certainly be less than an inch. Just doing a few warm-weather test burns it appears (sorry, no rigorous testing with thermometers yet) that the solid strips transmit heat better than the folded sheet, as others suggested earlier in the thread. I have done some burns with both .027 and .020, and both seem to work well. It might also mean that the tip of the strip at the burner end might not need to be as close to the flame. I’m getting the .020 copper from Basic Copper. Velcro cinch straps are THESE. They are the perfect length for either 4oz or 8oz canisters. The silicone insulating sheet is from Mcmaster-Carr. The product cannot be linked directly, so after clicking on the link enter “8632K42” in the “Find” box in the upper left corner of the page and it will take you to the product, which is 1/16″ high-temp silicone sheet.

Hi Bob I went through these considerations when I was designing the heat shunt on my Winter Stove. Lots of experimental work. Points I noted: Aluminium is a better conductor of heat than copper when you go weight for weight. Going from 0.8 mm thick to 1.2 mm thick made a huge difference in functionality. Aluminium 1.6 mm thick is still lighter than copper 0.8 mm thick. Aluminium is a good enough conductor that it does not melt in the flame. One strip of width of 12 – 16 mm was wide enough for my needs. HTH Cheers

Roger, There is no doubt the Al I was using early on was too thin… cut with metal snips from a cheap tackle box somebody had discarded. I did not measure the thickness, but now that I have a feel for the various thicknesses of copper I've used, it was probably something like 0.4mm (.015") and thus it melted fairly quickly. This is why I dismissed aluminum right from the git-go… too quickly it seems. I will experiment with some thicker Al stock using your recommended dimensions and see how it goes. With the luxury of having a system that works, this season I can experiment some more. I'm glad to see that others are also interested in fine-tuning the system. How many people actually look forward to sub-zero nights in the woods? :^)

Hi Bob Yeah, give it a go. Soft Al alloy is best for this as you can shape it. Somewhere between 1.0 and 1.6 mm should work well for you. Check out the pics in my Winter Stove series and note the Al strip in the flame. Hasn't melted yet! Hey, I LIKE sub-zero nights! With a good airmat, a double-layer quilt, and my wife snuggled up against me inside my double-wall tunnel… What's not to like? Cheers